Does anyone really believe it shouldn't be legal?

Discussion in 'Marijuana Legalization' started by SublimeWithBrad, May 5, 2020.

  1. Title. 10 years ago, you could certainly find many people who were very unsure about it, even vehemently against it. However, today is 2020, and several states have fully legalized, over half the states have decrim and medical cannabis, and most people know somebody who smokes. I find the days of people being against legalization have gone slim, the only arguments I hear nowadays come from politicians mouths who are against it, and a few who fear of overregulation. But with that being said, I'm going to exclude people who don't support legalization for fear of excess federal regulations. Why? Because these people DO support legal cannabis, they want it legal, they just don't think it would be done right and too regulated. They want to be able to smoke weed without the risk of being charged for a crime for it.

    But are there people left who truly believe it is this dangerous drug that needs to stay illegal? If they exist, out of 100%, how much people do you think would hold that position today?

    I have a very hard time meeting anyone anti-cannabis nowadays, I meet people who choose not to smoke it, but even they wouldn't be against legalization. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Oh they're for sure out there. There's less and less of them and many of them are a lot older and grew up bombarded with only anti weed/drug in general propaganda, no internet, pretty much no access to information that didn't come from "the man". A lot of people refuse to accept they were wrong for a long time about things. It's a terrible thing but it's not uncommon.

    Many of these older people are dying. Plain and simple. Younger than that are becoming more accepting and as you get younger pretty much more and more are accepting to the point of an overwhelming majority. I won't try to put a number on it but I'll say anti weed folk are the minority, period. And the number is just going to shrink. Not overnight but it's a straight forward path.
     
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  3. Last I checked, neither Trump nor Bidien support cannabis legalization.
     
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  4. Cannabis prohibition is/was crimes against humanity. That is another word for systematic racism, or what would be discrimination in various forms. And as we all know from looking at cannabis prohibition history, or based on the science alone.

    Scientifically they cannot win that argument or debate because all racism hurts you more then it helps you. So they lose. And they now know it. Or at least the ones leading it do. So they have decided to stop hurting themselves. And looking bad in the process. :icgreen:
     
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  5. I dont think it should be fully legalised. There should be a limit to what you can grow. At the end of the day 90% of the people on here wether they admit it or not, are selling it illegally. Avoiding paying tax on it. Not working because this tops em up etc.
    Cant just give everyone a liscence to print money or the entire economy will collapse.
    Im in scotland, our govt who wont be changing any time soon are pro drugs. One way or another, possesion of all drugs will be legalised here soon.
    Growing small amounts will be legalised but theyll ramp the penalties for dealing or having too many plants through the roof.
    Nobody can smoke 40 plants 3 times a year. I realise some of the medical extract dudes, cancer patients etc can power through 2oz a day but they make up about 0.001% of cannabis users.

    Would i love to be able to have my attic choca 24/7 and making 200k a year from it tax free... Of course i fuckin would. But you cant just let everyone do that. If i was allowed to do it i would. So i wouldnt be working, paying tax or contributing to the running of the country.
    Theres also the added safety risks. How do i know my next door neighbour knows how to safely supply an attic with 8000w and isnt gonna burn my house down.
    All the junkies would be at it. Fucked out their heads setting fires everywhere.
    Nah. Cant just let folk do what they want like. Should certainly be allowed to grow a few plants. Or maybe a space limit. 5x5 space for bloom or something like that.
    Those with actual, physical diseases should be individually assessed.
    Those with mental diseases, well its just too open for abuse. You cant prove someone isnt depressed so everyone would just say that to get the printing ticket. I struggle with deperession, ptsd etc aswell so dont start on the heartless bastards stuff iether.

    I realise im effectively saying to criminalise most of us but you cant just let people do whatever they want. It doesnt work.
     
  6. It doesn't sound like you're against legalization, it sounds like you're against no regulation to me. Which, legalized, would be much better, because currently there are no regulations in place, and the illegality most certainly has not stopped people from doing it, just copping a FELONY charge...for growing a plant. Some of us are legitimately growing for personal use, and it is unfair to punish those of us doing so over those who may be growing to sell unlicensed, for example. . Most places that have legalized DO limit plants per grow - usually 4 - 6 plants per person. As far as an 8000W grow that could burn the house down, that's a risk you take legal or illegal, certainly has not stopped people - all you're doing is criminalizing people for doing it. A lot of people here want it totally legalized with no limits, so I can understand some of those concerns, also, if anything, legalization would encourage OUTSIDE grows, which would lower the risk of burning a house down with an inside grow.

    As far as mental diseases being open for abuse - could you not say the same for alcohol? IF you ask most people - woudl you rather be around an alcoholic or a pothead - a vast majority would rather be around a potheads. Nothing in this world is perfect - to expect perfection from anything is simply outrageous, and to deny people the ability to choose to put something in their body that does not even have the potential to kill them, sounds a bit ridiculous to me when you consider the vast amount of damage alcohol does. Is it a be all end all? No. But does it have to be to be legalized? No. It's simply the right thing - and it should be their choice to do so. If abuse is your worry, strengthening rehabs would be a solid option and you could use legalization tax $$ to do just that.
     
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  7. Like I always say the Government is not your Momma. They work for you not the other way around. If 90% of the people want medical weed then why would say no. Easy Money. The reason why these people are reelected is our fault.
     
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  8. My whole thing was I was going to do it whether or not it was legal. Plus, I still buy weed off my friends because all the dispensary’s in my area usually short you and the weed is always dry as sand.

    I mean I guess it’s better that it’s legal. But as for my day to day life nothing has changed since we legalized it.
     
  9. While I agree that opinions seem to favor our cause, there’s still a lot of opposition. There’s still an 80s drug war mentality in a lot of places.
     
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  10. Don't I fucking know it. Dogs I'm 65. I'll never see it in Kuctfucky.
     
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  11. I have yet to meet anyone - and I mean anyone - opposed to it. Sure, 5-10 years ago I had. But today? I can't find anyone - even people who don't smoke it believe it hsould be legal here.
     
  12. You see this is what I'm talking about. The will of the people means nothing. It's our fault for reelecting these assholes.
     
  13. Yup, its sad isnt it.
    See if people just stuck together we could fuck the govornment in any way we wanted.
    Could control the price of fuel, gas, electricity just by selectively buying but sadly were just too stupid to stick together.
     
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  14. In regards to the subtle debate of whether it is better legalized or illegal...

    First thing is I hate the taxes on the cannabis. As a medical user when it was first legalized in Canada it was expensive. Eventually they had to bring out "discount" brands which is what I now stick with when I have to buy it there. But you can get 15g for about a hundred now. I paid 17g for a 1.5 rolled joint of Heartbreak Hawaii last week. 3.5 grams not in the discount brands are about 40-50.

    That doesn't seem bad now but when it first came out they only had 10% THC cannabis in stock and it was 47 dollars for 3.5 grams. If you are a medical user whom uses 3.5 of 20% cannabis... that is mighty expensive when you can't even claim it and make less then 96 dollars a day after tax. So I flipped out publicly and a couple days later the United Nations warned them about treatment of minorities and suddenly they promised phramacare (never gonna happen imho) and lowered the price. Gotta love the internet and organizations that pay companies to monitor it for them... :metal:

    In fact store front access and low barrier access was something the court told them they had to do from the start here for medical users. I think they must have forgot...?

    But ignoring the fact that "Sin" taxes are illegal due to there being no legal argument that you can use that wouldn't make it crimes against humanity... and for obvious reasons like the story above... here are the things that I like about legalized cannabis.

    1. You can grow it. I grew 4 plants last year and I caught my neighbors all looking down. This year they have their own four and they are as happy as they can be with them and show all their friends. And the one below me came up and asked me if I had any because he never seen one growing. That was last year. And I have numerous friends that sent me pics of theirs this year as proud as can be. So now I am not the only one and tons are happy with that. Me... I haven't had a closet to put clothes in over a decade. They are in boxes on my couch. And I finally got my office back from having it full of plants for the summer grow. So for me I still am "illegal" there and have to continue with that. But I am happy for others.

    2. Not having to wait in bar, or store, parking lots. I will never in my life miss that. EVER!

    3. Seniors. They love it. And that just makes me laugh. Today I seen a man that looked like he was on his way to church buying it. It's just kinda funny to see because they seem to be more open about it then the younger generation whom still has the "Just say no..." stigma and shame attached and kind of duck in and duck out. Nobody speaks about it. It goes right into their pocket. Older people not so much. And for me that is funny to see.

    4. Young mothers. Women buy about 2/3 of the legal pot and men stick with the black market more according to stats and what I see. And it just makes me happy knowing that they do not have to go to a "dealers" house like I seen for years. Basically now they have no shame and it is more like mommy needs a glass of wine after dealing with you all day... instead of mommy might go to jail, or mommy is a junkie... and they seem a lot happier to be in the "norm."

    5. Convenience. Before I was a medical user I was a recreational user. Something I hate because it sounds like a cop-out. But whatever. I can debate both since the law is the same in either case. And while this is the same as waiting in parking lots... being able to get it on your time when we are all busy is just plain nice.


    Things I hate...

    Taxes. Read above.

    Display and advertising. You are not allowed to display anything so buying it is like walking into a grey box where they hand you a list that has been scratched out a half dozen times and nothing is listed in amounts because it is by company name and product. So if you are looking for a 3.5 gram in something you have to search all the companies products to find the hand written one with scratch marks all over it. And comparing prices involves flipping about 4 pages. Luckily they all know I just want the discount brands now and they tell me what is in stock. I kinda work next to them for about 5-6 hours each week. So that helps. But no displays and no prices sucks when you are trying to stretch your money. Unlike the liquor store with it's couple hundred feet of wines to browse alone. Including the ones on sale at the end of the isle.

    For the record there is a tweed store just down the street from me that might be better in this regard but over a ten year period I had a dozen crimes committed against me because they thought the police were lying to jail cannabis users for money so they could too. Or just knew they could say the word cannabis in public to extort me, etc. So I have never been in that store because it is almost certain you are there for cannabis. And I stick with one that sells tobacco and other things so nobody can say for certain that I am a cannabis smoker. Which is just part of the "Just say no..." mentality that our generation has, and why they often duck their heads and turn their face when they leave the store unlike the others whom were not targeted like this as teens. People who know me find that funny; but understand it. For example my grandfather cut me out of his will, "because I didn't deserve anything unless I was starving." Then divided it out to others based on the fact that I used cannabis. And while that technically isn't a crime... and later apologized for doing that... and all the lies he told to make that leap due to the fact I was working 20-22 hour days 5-7 days a week at the time... it is hard to see your own family just snap and start lying about you and think others would not do the same. Especially since the church leader told him why he had no problem lying about cannabis users. Then he told me he wished he got up Sundays and smoked cannabis with us. "Because then he would still be going to heaven, and helping the oppressed." We laughed about that. But that leads me to my last point which is the next generation will not have to go through what we had to. And that is what I am happy about the most with legalization. :)
     
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  15. Oh yes! Totally understandable in all of that.... And let's be honest it's been illegal for almost 100 years. Re-legalizing it and getting it right will take time. It's not gonna be the PERFECT Legalization right out of the gate like so many of the cannabis users here expect it to be. It's going to be trial and error, fine tuning, and fixing over the course of several years, possibly decades, until the nonsensical tax rates lower and until advertising becomes more lax and it's just treated truly like alcohol. But the key things are as long as they allow cultivation of at least 4 plants minimum and they allow selling it recreationally - we should take what we can get, and when they see the failures of overly taxing it, they will correct it and reduce taxes over the years, but in the meantime, people won't be pulled over for it, people won't go to jail for it, and you won't have your stash taken or fined if it's decriminalized. You can grow it yourself without fear of a felony sitting over your head, and you can buy it at a store if you really needed some and couldn't find it elsewhere. Once it's legal federally, I suspect a lot of reform will be done across the board in the states that have already legalized to tweak a lot of things to make more sense.

    For example, Vermont legalized weed in 2018. Just recently, 2020, they voted to double the amounts both for cultivation and possession - from 1 oz to 2 oz for possession and from 2 plants to 4 plants for cultivation. It's still not where some people want it to be, but my point is strong in that in due time, they will make adjustments and they will correct the issues where everybody has complaints - but they can't correct it if you never legalize it to begin with. Humans tend to learn things by actually making the mistake themselves - so the sooner we legalize, the sooner we can fumble through all these mistakes and fix all these laws/taxes that most of us find to be overregulated and overtaxed.
     
  16. Problem is, states making it legal, can be overturned by the federal govt. They are overlooking all this, but at any time, 'if they choose', they can come in and nail anybody & everybody. This is not a states rights issue.
     
  17. there are only a few thousand DEA agents ... there are millions of people with access to " legal" cannabis .. shit would have to get really real if DEA wanted to enforce Federal marijuana laws ... literally UN forces would need to invade the Country and bring the entire force of the UN drug war with them to then basically attack the entire country with force = all because people are ingesting plants ... That
     
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  18. "Oh yes! Totally understandable in all of that.... And let's be honest it's been illegal for almost 100 years. Re-legalizing it and getting it right will take time. It's not gonna be the PERFECT Legalization right out of the gate like so many of the cannabis users here expect it to be. It's going to be trial and error, fine tuning, and fixing over the course of several years, possibly decades, until the nonsensical tax rates lower and until advertising becomes more lax and it's just treated truly like alcohol. But the key things are as long as they allow cultivation of at least 4 plants minimum and they allow selling it recreationally - we should take what we can get, and when they see the failures of overly taxing it, they will correct it and reduce taxes over the years, but in the meantime, people won't be pulled over for it, people won't go to jail for it, and you won't have your stash taken or fined if it's decriminalized. You can grow it yourself without fear of a felony sitting over your head, and you can buy it at a store if you really needed some and couldn't find it elsewhere. Once it's legal federally, I suspect a lot of reform will be done across the board in the states that have already legalized to tweak a lot of things to make more sense."

    Just a couple corrections.

    1. Four is the maximum plants unless medical.
    2. I live in Canada. It's a place that is basically bankrupt with no more industry where I live and a population that thinks everything is free. Taxes do not go down here. 15% income, 15% sales(Was 19%), 8% environmental fee when they dropped the 4% of the sales tax, property taxes, water taxes, taxes on insurance, fees, levies, taxes on smokes, cannabis, gas, etc, all through the roof. When all is said and done my tax rate dings well over 75%. And it is about to sky rocket. So that made me laugh since you are not from around here eh. ;)
    3. I hear what you are saying about it not being perfect from the start but if they were following the law, thus no illegal laws, it would be. And I am kind of fed up with nobody following the laws because each one holds back all our lives. And if they cannot learn basic law then they should not be there imho. And by law.
    4. They pull you over and test you for being impaired more than ever. That I don't mind. But I work night shift and last night they followed me to my door. 3rd time this month. So they will pull you over more now.
    5. "Take what we can get..." That just put the hairs up on my back. They are conspiring in crimes against humanity against us that we have been trying to let them away with as long as they want to stop it. Or in other words I'm not going to take what we can get. I'm going to get what we deserve based on justice and human rights. If they have a problem with that then tell them to pass their illegal laws for crimes and let the international criminal courts deal with em. 25 years. Step right up.:judge:

    If you have to wait for human rights by law the United Nations has to put somebody in jail for that. Basic science and law. :cop:
     
  19. Racism?

    Really?

    j
     
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