Coco Experiment - Marine Cuisine

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by AskEd, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. #1 AskEd, Jul 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2010
    High everyone! Thought I'd share this little experiment I've been doing. I love not having to use liquid nutes, it's such a low maintenance way to grow. I normally make my own coco mix with amendments but this stuff grabbed my eye in the hydro store so thought I'd give it a try, it really looks good...

    Experiment: If we mix in some fertilizer with the coco, we should be able to grow by just adding water and more fertilizer every few weeks.
    I'll take a picture every week to post her progress, I'll take the pictures on Saturdays and update this first post :)


    COCO MIX
    For vegging we will us a 1 gallon pot
    1 gal coco fiber coir + 2 oz perlite
    3 tbsp Marine Cuisine
    2 tbsp Epsom salt (some extra magnesium)

    For flowering, probably bat guano, we'll see when we get there.


    WATER
    I have a standard water I use for all my plants, I call it "Base RO", I'll use this through out the grow
    1 gal RO water
    1 tsp epsom salt
    2 drops Superthrive
    ph'd to 5.5-5.8


    STOCK
    I'll be using a G13 Labs Skunk #1 feminized seed, I'll name her Aunt Peg because she is such a legend and institution and a part of so many other great ladies that we enjoy.



    I'll use Marine Cuisine (Fox Farms) for veg (about a week or two) and bat guano for flowering. The maxicrop is a nice treat for the plant every week or two during flowering, this is a source of potassium which seems to be lacking in the guano.
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    Here's the Marine Cuisine, great mix of shit & meals
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    Looks like our seed is ready for coco!
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    ===========================================


    WEEK 1
    Mon - Broke ground
    Wed - 16oz Base RO
    Sat - 16 oz Base RO & took picture (below)


    Day 7 (7/3/10)
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    WEEK 2
    Tue - 3rd set of leaves opened up, she should be feeding now
    Wed - 16oz Base RO
    Sat - 16 oz Base RO & took picture (below)


    Day 14 (7/10/10)
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    Her growth has been fantastic, went ahead and topped her. I figure she has about 3 weeks worth of food starting now. Next Saturday she will flip to 12/12.

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    -----=====-----


    WEEK 3
    Mon - 16 oz Base RO w/ 2 tsp Maxicrop
    Fri - 16 oz RO & took pictures (below)
    Sat - Moved to 12/12 flower space


    Aunt Peg continues to grow well, I noticed some purple/red stripes in her stalk last weekend so I gave her a little Maxicrop to be safe and get the microbe party going into overdrive. I also saw some strange leaf tips in the new growth so I'm watching that. Not too worried about it but a little bummed, she was looking perfect! And really she still is, she's very healthy.

    Day 20 (7/16/10)
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    -----=====-----


    WEEK 4
    Wed - Transplanted to 3 gal, watered in with 32 oz Base RO + 20 ml Maxicrop, topped all 6 branches @ 2nd/3rd nodes
    Fri - 16 oz RO
    Sat - Took pictures (below)


    Aunt Peg continues to progress nicely. She's 28 days from breaking ground today and she's been in 12/12 for a week now. By next Saturday's update she should have some preflowers. Last week she had damaged leaf tips :mad: I believe it's burning as I put 3 times the amount of Marine Cuisine as recommended :rolleyes: No big deal, it was with just one layer of leaves oddly enough.

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    The gnats have been really bad lately so I put a layer of perlite up top, it's kept them away :)
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    Her new growth does not have the fucked up tips so looks like all is well for now. She's a little light in the centers but I'm not too worried about that.
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    Let's wind the clock back a few days to Wednesday just before her transplant. You can see her new shoots have the strange tips. No biggy as I normally top at this point anyways. She has 6 branches, all of them were topped after the 2nd set of branches.
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    New flower mix:
    2 gal - coco coir
    2 tbsp - Marine Cuisine
    4 tbsp - Indonesian Bat Guano
    2 tbsp - Dolomitic Limestone - pelletized (to compensate for coco's calcium issue)
    2 tbsp - Epsom salt (magnesium supply)
    [​IMG]


    -----=====-----


    WEEK 5
    Sun - 32 oz Base RO
    Wed - 32 oz Base RO
    Fri - 32 oz Base RO & Took pictures (below)


    Growth has been fantastic, she's so happy and really starting to take off. I have been so impressed with this Marine Cuisine that I'm starting to send a lot more plants down the line with it, it's a champ for vegging for sure. I've yet to cut a leaf - even the damaged ones are still there. I haven't seen a pistil yet here at 12 days of flowering, but it should be any day now. More importantly, she is showing no signs of deficiencies, I give high marks for the veg stage - this stuff has made my life a little easier to get things started.

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    Here she is in the flower space with her cell mates. :wave:
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    -----=====-----


    WEEK 5 1/2

    Well everyone, some good news and some bad. First off, the good news is that that this is one ofthe healthiest plants I've ever raised, the Marine Cuisine has impressed me to no end, these pics were actually taken last Tuesday (been busy :mad:).

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    The bad news is Aunt Peg came up positive in a random nut check, we have a male here :( I don't see any pistils anywhere so we're not talking hermie that I can tell. And yes this is a feminized seed. Ah well, my first male from a fem seed, bound to happen I suppose. Uncle Peg is outside on my patio while i think this over. :smoking:

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  2. can't wait to see the results. Thanks Ed!
     
  3. Break out the label maker! It's name'n time. That's a very indica looking Skunk #1. Congrats. I'm always so nervous about topping at this point. I'm curious about your decision to top versus fimm versus LST. Just a simplicity thing?

    I'm interested in this setup also. If those nutrients are too water soluable I imagine that they would run out. Personally, I'd be fearful of that and never water with a run off (unless of course things looked bleak).

    I mean, coco was already pretty easy but this could make life very easy (and cheap) if it works as well as my system. $20 for a few bags'o'stuff and all of veg is covered? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, being that just my Macro nutes are more than that.

    This is me subscribing.
     
  4. #4 AskEd, Jul 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2010
    Hey there Shred, thanks for checking this out man. I have a good feeling about this one, this is one of the healthiest starts I've seen.


    Hey Snow! :wave: Yeah had to give her a decent tag if she's going to have her own thread LOL

    I was told that this strain can be a little stretchy so I went ahead and topped her (I always screw up my FIM attempts so I don't bother anymore LOL). I don't normally LST at all unless I'm forced to, just a preference thing but I've had great luck with LST'ing before and think it's great. With topping I have a lot more options to control height and will usually yield more fat buds, so I like to do that and this is the perfect time. It hurts to cut such a pretty plant though :(

    No run off for me but yeah I have the same worries about flushing out fertilizer. According to some good organic reading I have - there is no flushing that occurs especially after two weeks when everything has a chance to bind, but it still seems possible so I give them just enough to not drain anyway. No reason for runoff here that I can see, or even flushing later on since there's no chem nutes being used. 10 minutes of work prepping the coco in pre-grow can save a ton of work later. I'm all for lazy growing LOL
     
  5. go aunt peg!

    thanks for doing this experiment ed, cant wait to see how it turns out
     
  6. Amazing.... always 'experimenting' you are like a scientist, Ed :p Cant wait to see what the smelly fish can do....I LOVE me some maryland bluecrabs :D
     
  7. Hey Ed first and foremost I'd like to say I've been lurking your coco threads religiously and I love your work. I was wondering if you would ever use the marine cuisine as a top dressing or just as a medium amendment? Also what would be a good top dressing mix?
     

  8. Me too man, this could make things really easy! I have to say, this is about the healthiest looking plant I've run yet, she is just something else and loving this mix so far. There's a certain color that plants have when they are extra happy - it's like a teal or something. Anyhow she's glowing with it, pics in a few days...



    Oh man, we are some crab eating fools. Just saw Alton Brown do a Good Eats show on crab, guess what we are eating this weekend? :D I love the mad scientist experiments, got a million more to try...

    BTW - the smell of this stuff isn't bad at all, and with the smelly stuff (sea kelp, crab shells, seabird guano, etc.) the smell is minor and only for 2 or 3 days tops. Small price for such good nutrition IMO :smoking:



    Hey Nasty! Glad to hear you like the coco action man and I appreciate the looking, as versatile as this stuff is I don't see switching anytime soon LOL

    I would use anything for a top dressing, especially this stuff. If I were vegging longer, I'd add another tbsp or two as a TD now - normally 2 weeks is long enough for that stuff to start breaking down and feeding and I figure there's 2 or 3 weeks of nutrients in the coco now it would work out perfect.

    BUT - my plan is to put her into 12/12 this Saturday, then transplant next Wednesday or so (just enough to let her adjust to the flower space). Her flowering mix I'm thinking will be coco, Marine Cuisine, and bat guano.

    The Marine Cuisine will keep her going as she transitions to flower, and the guano will be there when she needs the phosphorous. After that she'll get guano top dressings every 3 weeks until harvest, with some occasional Maxicrop for micro nutrients and potassium (coco devours K). Sounds good on paper :smoking:

    Whether is works or not in reality, well as Chris Berman says, "That's why they play the games" LOL

    Currently I really don't use nutes anymore except for 2 stubborn plants (El Dorado and a Super Skunk), otherwise I've been harvesting sweet buds using only top dressings, this is a pretty normal batch and I add 2 or 3 tbsp of this for a 3 or 5 gal container:

    2 oz bat guano (Jamaican or Indonesian)
    2 oz Bone Meal
    2 oz Kelp Meal
    1 oz Greensand
    1 oz Epsom salt


    This is a mega blast of P & K (two sources each) and a little magnesium. I have pelletized dolomite lime in the coco already (calcium) otherwise I'd add in some lime in the TD. It should be noted that these are all alkaline inducing items, but doesn't seem to be an issue in coco. For soil I'd add in some sulfur to acidify this a bit.
     
  9. Awesome my man. Thanks for being so informative!
    I found some pelletized agricultural lime at the wal-mart would that work?
    or should I head to the nursery? I know i remember seeing dolomite lime there but it was more expensive.
    And where would one find greensand? the nursery as well or the local hydro store?
    Sorry for all the questions! :smoking: I'm new to the coco world but I figure if I'm gonna do it I might as well do it right.
     
  10. What do you mean by "10 minutes of work prepping the coco"? What do you do?
     

  11. Hey brother, I don't mind the questions at all, how could I live up to my screen name otherwise? LOL

    The pelletized lime is great, it's what I prefer to be honest but I like dolomite limestone, which provides magnesium as well as calcium. Look on the bag to see it nutritional info, you want the calcium to be around 17% or better. You may see some iron or sulfur in addition, and that's a good thing.

    The pelletized is good because it's housed in clay so it's slow acting. This works great for flowering because calcium becomes an issue a few weeks into it, right about when this pelletized stuff goes to work.

    Greensand you should be able to find at any decent nursery or organic supply, it's pretty common around here but you may have to look online.



    Actually it didn't take that long to prep the coco, but basically:
    1 - Measured out 1 gal of coco into a big tub
    2 - Measured out 3 tbsp of Marine Cuisine & 1 tbsp of epsom salt into the coco
    3 - Mixed the coco/amendments & dumped into 1 gallon container

    The time I save down the line is I don't have to mix up nutes and work on dialing in a feed schedule, I just give her ph'd water. So far she's using a quart a week which is exactly what I had left over from the gallon I prepared when I mixed the coco together. So basically I haven't done shit since she sprouted except water her every 3 or 4 days.
     
  12. Sub'd

    I cant wait to see these babys!
     
  13. WEEK 3
    Mon - 16 oz Base RO w/ 2 tsp Maxicrop
    Fri - 16 oz RO & took pictures (below)
    Sat - Moved to 12/12 flower space


    Aunt Peg continues to grow well, I noticed some purple/red stripes in her stalk last weekend so I gave her a little Maxicrop to be safe and get the microbe party going into overdrive. I also saw some strange leaf tips in the new growth so I'm watching that. Not too worried about it but a little bummed, she was looking perfect! And really she still is, she's very healthy.


    Day 20 (7/16/10)
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  14. Morning Ed,

    Just found your experiment. Looking good!

    Purple stems... My LSD clone in coco was going through this too...

    V
     
  15. Hey V! :wave: Thanks for checking it out man, looking good so far, she's adjusting to the HPS now, think I'll transplant tonight or tomorrow.

    I think the red/purple striping in this one may be some genetics, but I'm always paranoid it's some kind of nutrient problem!
     
  16. What's up my man :smoking:
    What are your temps lookin like for Aunt Peg?
     
  17. Ed - Quick question. I'm nearing the end of my first grow (coco hempy ending in the next 2-3 weeks) so I'm not experienced at all with your method. You're in 1 gallon containers and water with 16 oz of your water - do you get any run-off?

    I think I'm doing pretty good with the method I chose but mixing the nutes twice a week is the only draw-back. So I'm watching this with much interest and I thank you for your effort.

    Also - would this method be considered an organic grow? I've read all over that organic is the way to go if you're looking for the best possible product.

    BTW - this is my first post and first thread I've subscribed to.

    Thanks!
     
  18. Nice experiment Ed. I hate havin to mix nute solution too, so I'll definitley try this if it works out good. Keep that river of info goin. Thanks man
     

  19. Hey Nasty :wave: I'm not sure what she was running in the veg area as I have no thermometer there, but the flower space (not pictured yet) runs about 82F and 45%RH with lots of air flow. There's a 600W HPS in there, Peg was in the shadows the 1st day but in full intensity on the 3rd day in thee, she seems really happy :)



    Hi Spoom! First off a warm welcome to the city, this is really a great place to share this hobby, and it's an honor to have your first post here :)

    I have a hempy bucket ready to go, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. How do you like the coco hempy? There was a guy here doing coco/perlite hempys with some amazing results.

    Anyhow, no runoff for me, the 16 oz seems to keep her saturated well enough for 2 or 3 days. Normally I don't measure but since I'm journaling this experiment... you know.

    I know what you mean about mixing nutes up often, have you tried mixing up a larger quantity and just checking the ph before feeding? I was doing that, but with the number of plants I have and different nutes I was using, I had 12+ gallon bottles of nutes to maintain :smoking: That's when I went organic LOL

    As for this grow being organic - I guess that depends on who you ask since there are different views on what's organic. I consider this organic myself, but purists (like my wife) will argue that the super thrive I add violates the organic principle. But I'm new to organics so my view may not be OMRI certified LOL

    I will say I prefer the organic way over chem nutes (buds taste great!), but I suggest getting the feet wet with nutes first.



    Hi SJ! Thanks bro, yeah this can spoil a grower real quick LOL I get the feeling I could give this plant straight RO unmodified and she'd be fine. That's the next step :p

    Love the avi man, I have that poster :smoking:
     
  20. Thanks for the welcome, Ed.

    Keeping in mind that I have no experience to base this on but I think the Hempy + Coco is working very well. (They're alive and blooming!!) I was/am amazed how the roots just explode throughout the 3 gallon bucket in the coco. During Veg I could go nearly a week between feedings and now in late bloom I go 3 -4 days between. So it's been pretty easy. I feed when the buckets are light (as in mass). I'm using the GH FloraNova series and following the directions (full strength) found here: http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_KeepItSimple_DrainToWaste.pdf. No Ph or meters and use tap water. The only training was topping. (On a couple plants) I'm trying to start with the basics initially and see how it goes and then I'll have more variables to tweak to try and improve (ph,ppm,training)(if that makes sense).

    I never thought to mix the nutes in mass - I guess I thought I'd be less problematic (for the plants) to mix as needed. I even dump any mixed nutes and start fresh each watering - I was afraid it's spoil or sour. I've got 7 plants and 6 gallons of water does the trick.

    When I saw the Hempy himself now uses Coco (with perlite in the bottom) I was sold. What I hope though is a way to get the best of both worlds of amazing growth in coco/hydro and "quality" of organics and still be able to be as lazy as possible:) Tis why I am following your endeavors! Enough about me and good luck my man and thanks again.
     
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