Carboxyl Cannabinoids VS Decarboxylated Cannabinoids

Osteoporosis is a weakening of the bones that causes increased risk of bone fracture. It is not just about calcium, it is about the cells that live under the calcium and hold it in place.

With the increased fracture risk comes increased risk of premature death. Even though the diagnosis is kind of new for me, I've already got a serious history of low impact adult bone fractures. I can know about 3, suspect 3 or 4 more in the small bones in my feet that were never treated & on like that. The big concerns for premature death are fracture at the top of the femur near the hip and spinal fracture. As part of the spine thing the discs between the bones dissolve and go away reducing the spaces where the nerves come out between the bones. Pain and paralysis can also be unfavorable outcomes with this issue. As I age the bones get weaker and the risk of fracture and death or paralysis go up. For men 65 to 75 is the average age for this diagnosis to appear. At 55 I'm at the youngest end of the range where it is generally seen in men. For me it is probably a side effect of the asthma medicine I used between the age of 4 and 2011 (53?).

 

Some nutritionists are starting to call cannabinoid acids (THCA & CBDA) essential nutrients. The non-decarboxylated forms have extra health-promoting properties which are lost during decarboxylation, including immune and bone health promotion....but it's not very much. I think it's safe to say the main benefit of raw cannabis is that you can consume 50-100 times more than you normally would, without getting too stoned, or even high at all. I'm not sure you get many health benefits from vaporizing, cause the dose is so small. I would juice and eat raw leaves if I could afford it. Like nutritionists are saying, there is no alternative plant which supplies such a unique class of nutrients as the cannabinoids. So raw cannabis might soon be recognized as an essential superfood, like spirulina, and be have its own section on food pyramids.

 

This is interesting. I never realized that any of the cannabinoids affected bone metabolism.

I was diagnosed with osteoporosis on my 50th birthday. I tried Fosamax, and then Boniva, and my osteoporosis progressed during that year. I stopped taking osteoporosis meds because of the side-effects. Eventually I gave up on the vitamin D and calcium too.

My last dexa scan showed no increase in my osteoporosis. This discussion has me wondering if using cannabis to treat my Lupus symptoms has been responsible (or partially responsible).

 

I saw on one of these videos that some places give out 30 plant 'allowances' for MMJ users. The point is to grow a plant for a month vegetative, then juice the whole thing without even flowering.

 

Treats pain and asthma well but it is only palliative care not disease cure.

I want the cure not palliative care.

All of the endocannabinoids and other cannabimimetic compounds we make in our bodies come from the fats we eat. Each major type of fat has at least 1 cannabimimetic compound (NAE) among other things most are bio active compounds. I'll use NAE to talk about the whole group of compounds that will extend beyond the technical definition of an NAE.

I'll focus primarily on the essential fats from the Omega-3 and Omega-6 groups. There are 3 major familys of endocannabinoids and whole bunches of other stuff specifically involved in the operation of our nervous system and immune system. Our bodies if we are normal what ever that is can make every other kind of fat there is from these two fats.

The big picture issue we will start with is that most of what our bodies make from Omega-6 fats is now thought to be pro-inflammatory. We need some of that but not too much and certainly not run amok. But that is what most of us in North America eat most of the time. The Omega-3 fats are thought to be more anti-inflammatory with specific substances that resolve or conclude the healing process having been identified.

So now lets get down to cases. Any one who has been studying the cannabinoids for any length of time knows each cannabinoid does something different. Some times it is a little different, sometimes it is a lot different. With endocannabinoids it can range from something very generic to something extremely specific. Anandamide is a whole family of cannabinoids, "there are sub types" just like there are sub types of cannabinoid type 1 receptors. The same is true for Docosahexaenoyl Ethanolamide and Eicosapentaenoyl Ethanolamide. A little bit of something is spliced into the middle of the endocannabinoid and the instruction gets changed from do this to be that go here go there etc... Our endocannabinoids are responsible for telling stem cells what to be and this is part of how they control the immune system and bone growth. Bone growth is a form of wound healing. This signaling actually starts when our egg divides the first time and continues throughout the rest of our lives.

Here is one paper that talks about the subtypes of Docosahexaenoyl Ethanolamide: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3173121/

Any way the issue is balancing the pro-inflammatory factors with the anti-inflammatory factors.
I'll do bones and continue this in my next message.

 

Have you considered the tannins, asthmatic?

The lady in the vid said she specifically treats hers with tea from the leaf.

 

I'm not over looking your information. I have tried it already except the CBN. Without the personal ability to know and control plant cannabinoid content the knowledge does me no real good.

I'm moving beyond plant based cannabinoids and trying to reveal the next stage in the evolution of cannabinoid therapy to you since you appear more than average smart to me & kind of energetic. It's future is emerging today and while cannabis will always be a part of it it will become a smaller and smaller part of that as new sources of cannabimimetic compounds emerge. It is the endocannabinoids that will force cannabis into main stream medicine and both endocannabinoids and other cannabimimetic compounds like the Alkylamides of Echinacea and ß-caryophyllene that will end up establishing just how useful it is. If current trends continue we will both live to see it. I like you but feel like your reading what I'm writing like I want to pick a fight and I don't. It will just take me a while to present you with the research I know you like to see. I have 3+ GB of it on the drive and I'm having trouble finding the best and newest of what I've been reading for you.
Right now I'm working on the osteoporosis thing.

here is one on asthma I found while looking for it.
https://scholarworks.iupui.edu/bitstream/handle/1805/2752/Sally_K_Head_Dissertation.pdf

 

Tastes like used bong water to me. The smell makes me wretch when I'm doing the sun tea step in my hash oil recipe. I do want to know more about plant tannins though if you have some good information. You know that tea catechins' have the ability to plug into the cannabinoid receptors right? She would also be getting ß-caryophyllene from the cannabis in the tea and that is a CB-2 specific cannabinoid.

Tea catechins' affinity for human cannabinoid ... [Phytomedicine. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

 

after writing the last I remembered that I have been having success with asthma using ß-caryophyllene aroma therapy style but there are cheaper easier sources of that than cannabis. And you knew that about me any way.

 

The cannabis could be helping your osteoporosis, but it is not helping me that way. My MD's and I are unable to see any change in my bone loss trend across 3 Dexa's. I started cannabis about 1/2 way between the 2nd and 3rd Dexa Scan. All of my MD's and my dentist are telling me to avoid Fosamax, and Boniva due to potential side effects and clinical ineffectiveness. The bones may have calcium but they break like chalk.

Any way cannabinoids control the immune system, wound healing is a function of the immune system, bone remodeling is a function of wound healing. The fact that EPA and DHA metabolize into endocannabinoids appears to have been proven around 2007 so it is still kind of news to people doing medical research on EPA and DHA they are more or less currently having the Ah Ha moment about why EPA and DHA do what they do. The up shot being that reading old and even some of the current research relating these two fats through the lens of "It's a Cannabinoid of course it does" shows a pile of research that says fish oil fixes osteoporosis.

This one is general and talks about Lupus, Asthma Osteoporosis etc.......
Fish Oil (EPA/DHA):Not Just Another Fish Story

This is new to me today I think. Found it looking for the paper I wanted to link to but can't seem to find anywhere. It looks a little more comprehensive than the article I was looking for.
Skeletal lipidomics: regulation of bone metabolism by fatty acid amide family

Long-term aerobic exercise and omega-3 supplementation modulate osteoporosis through inflammatory mechanisms in post-menopausal women: a randomized, repeated measures study

Positive Correlation between Erythrocyte Levels of n–3 Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids and Bone Mass in Postmenopausal Korean Women with Osteoporosis

 

As always I'm medicated so add salt to this.

I'm only using unnatural in the since that it dies not exist that way on it's own and that we have altered it to our purposes. It is not a bad thing, it just does not happen that way with out intervention by us.

THC-a may be an endocannabinoid or it may not. The deciding factor would be how our bodies use it. We carry our endocannabinoids around with us all the time. They are incorporated into a cell membrane then released based on a signal input via metabolism before they are ready to plug into their neuro-receptor. Other cannabinoids including plant cannabinoids come into our bodies ready to bind directly to the neuro-receptor no further action on our part is required though metabolism can still alter function. When we look at what liver metabolism does to THC after ingestion there is evidence supporting your statement,

however liver metabolism is not required for THC to be bio-active. Still this metabolism suggests and supports the notion that our bodies expect, recognize, knows how to use and has a use for THC.

 

Hello. This is my first post. Can I use regular old pot to treat cancer? Honestly, I don't even think we could afford enough of that to do the job. Thats at 100 an ounce. It adds up after a bit. Thank you in advance.

 

wow what a thread! this is the type of info everyone needs to be into...

Are there others or anyone out there who thinks like @Ashmatic ? or @Green71 in 2017... more GC threads like this please!