Carboxyl Cannabinoids VS Decarboxylated Cannabinoids

The question is: Which cannabinoids are truly more beneficial, Carboxyl cannabinoids or Decarboxylated cannabinoids? I am raising this question to try and get to the bottom of this confusion.

I will start by saying at the moment, from what i understand, My theory is that decarboxylated cannabinoids make the cannabis more medicinal and beneficial.

Here's why:

First off, Rick Simpson's Decarboxylated oil has cured tons of people, many of terminal cancer and other serious issues. He has stated that he treated over 5000 people with his oil and has NOT seen one condition he couldn't cure or treat phenomenally. That alone is amazing. Here is a link to many videos of proof if you want to see them. EATING CANNABIS OIL CURES CANCER AND MOST HEALTH PROBLEMS - YouTube

Next, i found this post on another thread:

Electron Microscopy of Cannabis:

"The results of his alleged test show 4.73184% cannabinoids before decarboxylation, and 6.4918% after. That's an increase of about 43% total active (non carboxyl) cannabinoids. I consider that a huge improvement, not even taking into account the higher strength of the newly formed cannabinoids in the post-decarboxylation cannabis. Also, this figure of 43% is similar to what I and others have reported as the percieved increase in potency, around 35-40%."

For this ^ the link posted no longer was available, but if it is true that cannabinoids can be increased by 43% after decarboxylation, that is a HUGE difference.

Next, a very important reason: SYNERGY. The question is, are carboxyl cannabinoids synergistic? I don't think they are but i am not 100% sure on this. Decarboxylated oil allows all the Cannabinoids to work in synergy, plus the terpenoids and flavonoids, which could explain why the oil has such a strong healing power.

http://www.greenbridgemed.com/wp-co...-Entourage-Effects-Brit-J-Pharmacol-20111.pdf

This article has tons of excellent information.

"Although having important biochemical properties in their
own right, acid forms of phytocannabinoids are most commonly decarboxylated via heat to produce the more familiar
neutral phytocannabinoids"

Although this doesn't say much about carboxyl cannabinoids, no where in the article did i see anything about carboxyl cannabinoids being synergistic. Synergy seems to be a BIG reason why the oil is so medicinal.

As we know, some people do not tolerate High THC well, but it is now known that High doses or even regular amounts of CBD are known to remove the negative effects from THC while still reaping all the benefits from both cannabinoids and their synergistic effects.

The next idea for why decarboxylated oil is much more medicinal is 11-Hydroxy-THC. 11-OH-THC, is the main active metabolite of THC which is formed in the body after cannabis consumption. I have read before that this molecule is something like 4x stronger than Delta9-THC, but i don't know that for a fact. In this article it states, " In a variety of tests in different species, the 11-hydroxy metabolites have been reported to be more potent than the parent compounds" ( Delta 8-THC & Delta 9-THC), so it's definitely true that 11-hydroxy-THC is more potent.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00193a025

''A child who used to have hundreds of seizures a day now goes days without having a seizure [using 12:1 CBD/THC Hemp juice after being on every medication Western Medicine had]
Another patient of mine who is 2 or 3 years old had a brain stem tumor: after receiving 10 times the fatal exposure of radiation and a bone marrow transplant, she was sent home from hospice care. She was consuming up to 4 - 8 oz of raw cannabis juice per day - her MRI came, not only is the tumor gone, but the radiation damage, the scar tissue has completely reabsorbed in a year and a half, and it normally takes 5 - 6 years for that to reabsorb.'' Dr. Bill Courtney


This shows how a child was cured of a brain tumor and more using cannabis/hemp juice. This is amazing to hear but notice how it is stated that the healing took 1 and 1/2 years. The patient had lots of Radiation damage too which of course makes the healing process longer, but it does seem a bit long compared to the oil. Let me explain-

Rick Simpson has cured many people and says ingesting 60 grams of his oil over 3 months or less will cure most serious cancers. He then says if damaged by chemo or radiation the patient can require 120-180 grams of oil over a longer period of time to undo all the damage and heal. My point is that i believe the oil has the potential to cure and heal damage much faster. If a patient took 180 grams of oil over the longest recommended period of time it would be 9 months total. But this is almost very unlikely because after a few weeks or months a very high tolerance can be built easily, which makes the effects of the oil much easier to deal with. Rick says he has had patients ingesting 1-2 grams of oil a day once the tolerance was built up, and still going about their daily activities with no interference. I will estimate the total amount of time to ingest 180 grams of oil for a badly damaged patient to be in 9 months (max) or less. This, compared to 1 & 1/2 years (18 months) is HALF the time. My point should be clear here.

In conclusion: I am not knocking the potential of Raw cannabis juicing, i am just presenting a theory that appears to be true. Decarboxylated oil seems to have a much stronger healing power, than carboxyl cannabinoids. I am not presenting this as fact, because i could be wrong, but at the moment all hands seem to point to this conclusion.

Feel free to discuss

Also, "Very simply, when THC connects to the CB1 or CB2 cannabinoid receptor site on the cancer cell, it causes an increase in ceramide synthesis which drives cell death. A normal healthy cell does not produce ceramide in the presence of THC, thus is not affected by the cannabinoid." - Dennis Hill

 

Thank you man
I wonder if anybody else has any info?

 

Yeah i read that one before, so they both function on different pathways, but i wish there was more detail. I really am interested in finding out if carboxyl cannabinoid acids are synergistic or not.

 

A legal state of course. Many people have been confused because Rick often refers to cannabis oil as "hemp oil", but in stores of course cannabis oil isn't actually sold, it is hemp seed oil. Hemp seed oil has omega fatty acids which are good for you, but does not contain any cannabinoids therefore it will not cure.

It is best to make the oil yourself if you can, it's quite simple and there are many videos on how to do it.

Right now the only legal oil (besides in medical states) is from the site dixiebotanicals.com- They sell CBD/hemp tinctures, but no THC or any other cannabinoids. I just ordered some myself and it seems to be a pretty good product for what it is, but in order to have an effect on a serious condition i bet tons of it would have to be used, so i can't recommend it alone for serious conditions like cancer, but at least there is something available for people who have no access to anything. That being said, the real oil is what is needed made from cannabis buds, which will contain all the cannabinoids, terpenoids, flavonoids.

 

For cancer, Decarboxylated Oil (RSO) appears to be the best choice, and has been proven time and time again with RS's instructions that is works phenomenally.


"THCA does not fit the CB-1 receptor that is required to send ceramide to the work of apoptosis.”

First let’s look at what keeps cancer cells alive, then we will come back and examine how the cannabinoids CBD (cannabidiol) and THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) unravels cancer’s aliveness.

In every cell there is a family of interconvertible sphingolipids that specifically manage the life and death of that cell. This profile of factors is called the “Sphingolipid Rheostat.” If ceramide (a signaling metabolite of sphingosine-1-phosphate) is high, then cell death (apoptosis) is imminent. If ceramide is low, the cell will be strong in its vitality.

Very simply, when THC connects to the CB1 or CB2 cannabinoid receptor site on the cancer cell, it causes an increase in ceramide synthesis which drives cell death. A normal healthy cell does not produce ceramide in the presence of THC, thus is not affected by the cannabinoid.

The cancer cell dies, not because of cytotoxic chemicals, but because of a tiny little shift in the mitochondria. Within most cells there is a cell nucleus, numerous mitochondria (hundreds to thousands), and various other organelles in the cytoplasm. The purpose of the mitochondria is to produce energy (ATP) for cell use. As ceramide starts to accumulate, turning up the Sphingolipid Rheostat, it increases the mitochondrial membrane pore permeability to cytochrome c, a critical protein in energy synthesis. Cytochrome c is pushed out of the mitochondria, killing the source of energy for the cell.

Ceramide also causes genotoxic stress in the cancer cell nucleus generating a protein called p53, whose job it is to disrupt calcium metabolism in the mitochondria. If this weren’t enough, ceramide disrupts the cellular lysosome, the cell’s digestive system that provides nutrients for all cell functions. Ceramide, and other sphingolipids, actively inhibit pro-survival pathways in the cell leaving no possibility at all of cancer cell survival.

The key to this process is the accumulation of ceramide in the system. This means taking therapeutic amounts of cannabinoid extract, steadily, over a period of time, keeping metabolic pressure on this cancer cell death pathway.

How did this pathway come to be? Why is it that the body can take a simple plant enzyme and use it for healing in many different physiological systems? This endocannabinoid system exists in all animal life, just waiting for it’s matched exocannabinoid activator.

This is interesting. Our own endocannabinoid system covers all cells and nerves; it is the messenger of information flowing between our immune system and the central nervous system (CNS). It is responsible for neuroprotection, and micro-manages the immune system. This is the primary control system that maintains homeostasis; our well being.

Just out of curiosity, how does the work get done at the cellular level, and where does the body make the endocannabinoids? Here we see that endocannabinoids have their origin in nerve cells right at the synapse. When the body is compromised through illness or injury it calls insistently to the endocannabinoid system and directs the immune system to bring healing. If these homeostatic systems are weakened, it should be no surprise that exocannabinoids perform the same function. It helps the body in the most natural way possible.

To see how this works we visualize the cannabinoid as a three dimensional molecule, where one part of the molecule is configured to fit the nerve or immune cell receptor site just like a key in a lock. There are at least two types of cannabinoid receptor sites, CB1 (CNS) and CB2 (immune). In general CB1 activates the CNS messaging system, and CB2 activates the immune system, but it’s much more complex than this. Both THC and anandamide activate both receptor sites. Other cannabinoids activate one or the other receptor sites.Among the strains of Cannabis, C. sativa tends toward the CB1 receptor, and C. indica tends toward CB2. So sativa is more neuroactive, and indica is more immunoactive. Another factor here is that sativa is dominated by THC cannabinoids, and indica is predominately CBD (cannabidiol).

It is known that THC and CBD are biomimetic to anandamide, that is, the body can use both interchangeably. Thus, when stress, injury, or illness demand more from endogenous anandamide than can be produced by the body, its mimetic exocannabinoids are activated. If the stress is transitory, then the treatment can be transitory. If the demand is sustained, such as in cancer, then treatment needs to provide sustained pressure of the modulating agent on the homeostatic systems.

Typically CBD gravitates to the densely packed CB2 receptors in the spleen, home to the body’s immune system. From there, immune cells seek out and destroy cancer cells. Interestingly, it has been shown that THC and CBD cannabinoids have the ability to kill cancer cells directly without going through immune intermediaries. THC and CBD hijack the lipoxygenase pathway to directly inhibit tumor growth. As a side note, it has been discovered that CBD inhibits anandamide reuptake. Here we see that cannabidiol helps the body preserve its own natural endocannabinoid by inhibiting the enzyme that breaks down anandamide.

In 2006, researchers in Italy showed the specifics of how Cannabidiol (CBD) kills cancer. When CBD pairs with the cancer cell receptor CB-2 it stimulates what is known as the Caspase Cascade, that kills the cancer cell. First, let’s look at the nomenclature, then to how Caspase kills cancer. Caspase in an aggregate term for all cysteine-aspartic proteases. The protease part of this term comes from prote (from protein) and -ase (destroyer). Thus the caspases break down proteins and peptides in the moribund cell. This becomes obvious when we see caspase-3 referred to as the executioner. In the pathway of apoptosis, other caspases are brought in to complete the cascade.9

Even when the cascade is done and all the cancer is gone, CBD is still at work healing the body. Its pairing at CB-2 also shuts down the Id-1 gene; a gene that allows metastatic lesions to form. Fundamentally this means that treatment with cannabinoids not only kills cancer through numerous simultaneous pathways, but prevents metastasis. What’s not to like. One researcher says this: CBD represents the first nontoxic exogenous agent that can significantly decrease Id-1 expression in metastatic carcinoma leading to the down-regulation of tumor aggressiveness.10

This brief survey touches lightly on a few essential concepts. Mostly I would like to leave you with an appreciation that nature has designed the perfect medicine that fits exactly with our own immune system of receptors and signaling metabolites to provide rapid and complete immune response for systemic integrity and metabolic homeostasis.

-Dennis Hill



The Endocannabinoid System (ECS) started revealing itself to researchers in the 1940s and by the late ’60s the basic structure and functionality had been laid out. Today we know the ECS is a comprehensive system of biochemical modulators that maintain homeostasis in all body systems including the central and peripheral nervous systems, all organ systems, somatic tissues, and all metabolic biochemical systems, including the immune system.

This homeostatic matrix is not a recent evolutionary twist just for humans; we Find the Endo cannabinoid System in every chordate creature for the last 500 million years. It is a fully mature biochemical technology that has maintained health and metabolic balance for most of the history of life itself.

The two major interactive systems within the ECS are (1) the cannabinoid receptors that we find on all cell surfaces and neurological junctions and (2) the endocannabinoids that hit the receptors to trigger various metabolic processes. Looking at a cannabinoid receptor distribution map we see that CB1 receptors, that are most sensitive to anandamide, are found in the brain, spinal nerves, and peripheral nerves. CB2 receptors preferred by 2-arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG) are found largely in the immune system, primarily the spleen. A mix of CB1 and CB2 receptors are found throughout the rest of the body including the skeletal system. And yes, 2-AG or CBD will grow new trabecular bone.1 It is also useful to note that both anandamide and 2-AG can activate either CB1 or CB2 receptors.

The nature of the endocannabinoids are functionally much like neurotransmitters, but structurally are eicosanoids in the family of signaling sphingolipids. These signaling cannabinoids keep track of metabolic systems all over the body. This information is shared with the nervous system and the immune system so that any imbalance is attended to. If the body is in chronic disease or emotional stress, the immune system can fall behind and lose control of compromised systems. It is here that phytocannabinoids can pitch in to support the stressed body in a return to health. The cannabis plant provides analogues of the body’s primary signaling cannabinoids. Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is mimetic to anandamide, and cannabidiol (CBD) is mimetic to 2-AG, and has the same affinity to CB1 and CB2 receptors; providing the body with additional support for the immune and endocannabinoid systems.

Phytocannabinoids supercharge the body’s own Endocannabinoid System by amping up the response to demand from the immune signaling system in two modes of intervention: one, of course, is in bonding with the cannabinoid receptors; the other is in regulation of innumerable physiological processes, such as cannabinoid’s powerful neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory actions, quite apart from the receptor system. It is interesting to note here that the phytocannabinoids and related endocannabinoids are functionally similar, but structurally different. As noted above, anandamide and 2-AG are eicosanoids while THC and CBD are tricyclic terpenes.

Let us look more closely at the two primary therapeutic cannabinoids, THC and CBD. The National Institutes of Health tell us that THC is the best known because of its signature psycho- tropic effect. This government report shows THC to be effective as an anti-cancer treatment, an appetite stimulant, analgesic, antiemetic, anxiolytic, and sedative.2

CBD (cannabidiol) is a metabolic sibling of THC, in that they are alike in many ways but are also different in important properties. First we see that CBD has no psychotropic effects and there are few CB2 receptors in the brain and peripheral nerves. There appears to be a broader therapeutic profile associated with CBD, which is listed here: (see attachment)


One of the most important health benefits of cannabinoids is their anti-inflammatory property. In this, they are strong modulators of the inflammatory cytokine cascade. Numerous disease states arise out of chronic inflammation; such as, depression, dementias including Alzheimer’s, cancer, arthritis and other autoimmune disorders, viral infection, HIV, brain injury, etc.

Inflammatory cytokines can be activated by oxidative stress and disease states. Cannabinoids, being immunomodulators interrupt the cytokine inflammatory cascade so that local inflammation does not result in tissue pathology. Thus we are spared morbid or terminal illnesses.4
If our own endocannabinoid system can maintain metabolic homeostasis and even cure serious disease, why are we plagued by illness? We know that the body produces only small amounts of anandamide and 2-AG; enough to maintain the body but not enough to overcome chronic stress, illness, injury, or malnutrition. Cannabis is the only plant we know of that produces phyto- cannabinoids that mimic our own endocannabinoids. One of the great benefits of this mimetic medicine is that cannabinoids are essentially natural to our biology and do no harm to our tissues and systems.

It is well known that most diseases of aging are inflammatory in origin, thus making cannabis the best anti-aging supplement we could take to avoid arthritis, dementia, hypertension, diabetes, osteoporosis, and cancer. This is our key to good health and long life.

Since it is such an important attribute, as well as being independent of the cannabinoid receptor system, let’s look a little deeper into the ability of cannabinoids to inhibit the inflammatory cytokine cascade. Inflammation is good for us, a little here, a little there; it brings T-cells and macrophages to infection sites. This is good. However, chronic inflammation can cause serious illness and death. How do phytocannabinoids rescue us from dreaded infirmities? When the call comes in to the immune system to send troops, the First thing to happen is that the immune system signals glial cells to produce cytokines. Once this cat is out of the bag, the process can go one of two ways.

A) Killer cells clean up the infection and all is well.

B) Cytokines can stimulate more cytokine production and cause many more cytokine receptors to awaken. Unchecked, this becomes a cytokine storm showing symptoms of swelling, redness, fatigue, and nausea; even death.

Phytocannabinoids have the ability to suppress this inflammatory cytokine cascade by inhibiting glial cell production of the cytokines interferon or interleukin. Here we see the seeds of chronic inflammation dissolved by the modulation process of cannabinoids bringing homeostasis to systems out of balance. This is a good example of how cannabinoids normalize biological processes all throughout the body and allows us to keep that glow of well-being through a long and happy lifetime. (Bibliography)

-Dennis Hill

 

I agree the endocannabinoid system is of course designed for endocannabinoids, but cannabis is definitely man's symbiotic plant

 

One thing though, Yes THC oxidizes into CBN but if a plant is properly harvested and left to dry out of the sunlight it can remain potent for quite a long time, even without modern day storage equipment. So even if speaking about cannabis being used thousands of years ago.. like the "holy anointing oil" a very highly concentrated oil could have been made. I believe the recipe for the "holy oil" was something like a pound of bud per 4 liters of olive oil or something extremely concentrated.

I don't really understand what your point is with the "unnatural" statement. Taking in phytocannabinoids are really just supercharging the endocannabinoid system, and clearly at this point we have seen the amazing ability this oil has at healing. I highly doubt taking lots of omega fatty acids and relying on endocannabinoids can cure serious cancers, especially in todays toxic world. Saying it is "unnatural" is sort of like saying it is unnatural to juice tons of fruits and vegetables like the "gerson therapy", to gain lots of vitamins, minerals, and enzymes..etc. We are designed to use cannabinoids whether endo or exo.

 

This is a good video on CBN [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUtxQt0ged8]Cannabinoid Profile: Cannabinol - YouTube[/ame]

CBN has alot of medicinal aspects, and is probably an important part of "Rick Simpson oil"

Because of it's anti-inflammatory and sedative effects, + others etc.

Test results for one recent oil tested were:

95.51% THC, 1.54% CBD, 2.06% CBN.

"CBN appears to stimulate osteocytes(Bone cells), and is being looked at for treatment for bone disorders like osteoporosis."

Maybe it is something to look into more.

 

Yes and also i believe the amount of time heated is a major factor too. RS mentioned in one of his podcasts that he vaporized some of the oil once, and later collected the buildup from inside pieces of the vaporizer, and the oil was as much as 5-10x as potent as his regular oil and he couldn't believe how strong it was. If CBN is the main cannabinoid that is responsible for sedative effects this could be what was experienced.

 

Well that is good to hear that you are improving overall i hope you do have a full recovery soon I really don't know much about osteoporosis, but that is great that the fatty acids are helping. All i know is basic stuff like taking vitamin D, vitamin k, calcium....but i'm sure you are already doing all you can. These are the things i really want to see determined in the future...which treatment is best for what health problem.

Right now i am really just mainly focusing on what is pretty well known, and cancer being one of the most serious health issues, is known to be cured from RSO (which is why i am such a big advocate of course). Pretty much i just want to try and spread the best possible information that i can. I vaguely recall hearing a story about someone who treated with a bone disorder..but i can't quite recall the details. Although CBN may not produce the most pleasant effects, maybe it really could be a big help in bone disorders as mentioned in that video..who knows.

One question, have you used RSO at all or tried it? I know you are opposed to using potentially hazardous solvents but maybe it is something to consider to be worth a shot. He did have his oil tested in israel and it was 100% pure. It's possible to get petroleum ether that has a very low bp like 30-40c.

I just feel like there may be more science to these processes that is being missed at the moment because of lack of understanding or something.

Just throwing ideas out there because I try to help anybody that i can. So maybe high CBN is worth a shot, or maybe even juicing the leaves if possible, have you tried raw form? I would do everything together if i could lol.