whatever is voluntary and not forceful. as an ideal, i would like voluntary socialism in small geographic areas (big places don't work). and keep as many liberties as possible. socialism doesn't mean losing freedoms. the socialist part i'd like to see in individual companies, not necessarily as a whole. safety nets sure, hopefully well regulated and kicks out moochers. I think all of this is simply an altruistic community of co-operation. very hard to make a reality. which is why i support libertarianism for this country. it allows a bunch of ideas to flourish freely, to compete and see which works best.
You're kinda describing a hippy commune lol Edit: btw dalars that was a great response to the video I posted.....oh wait, you didn't respond and fled the thread. Oh, well...
I think what you are describing is an anarcho-syndicalist society, there was a near successful one in Spain in 1936 before the twin forces of Stalinism and Fascism decided to attack. You might be interested in this: Worker-Run Factories in Argentina Continue to Thrive, Boosting the Economy and Influencing Workers in Other Countries | World | AlterNet .
when you say freemarket capitalism is inherently apart of human nature, you seem to forget primitive communism was broadly in place before any type of mercantilism/capitalism even existed. in fact, the same argument that you present was used to justify human slavery. if you all genuinely believe in a true deregulated freemarket society, somalia is a great example, where there's been no central government in 2 decades, and where there's virtually no taxes.
I'm not saying free-market capitalism is based on human nature. I'm saying it's the only possible system based in pure logic. Did you watch the video? Human nature has nothing to do with this...we aren't even sure what is human nature and what is a product of your environment. How could something supposedly logical be based in something so shaky? So no you are misreprestenting my argument. And Somalia is hardly the same situation as we have here lol.
No I didn't flee, I have a life that requires I attend to it occasionally. Not to worry I will get back to you drones in good time. In the mean time can you look up the formula for "free market", the "natural law"
So you can make this post but you can't reply to the video I posted? And I too have a life that requires hardwork. I just think it was suspicious that you were replying to everyone in the thread and then once I posted the video you never came back...
Still non of you can give any example of a "free market" society that has or is working. You just have this "faith" that it will work if tried. Like in Chile in the 80's. Chile: the laboratory test
It's based in natural law, that's really the only proof you need to know that it atleast has a chance of working. Nature tends to always work, so of you come into harmony with nature you will most likely be able to sustain yourself.
Ok, I wasted 8 minutes of my day on THAT sunday school lesson on LIBERTY! This your PROOF of free market capitalism is a "NATURAL LAW"??? Seems like the Libertarian kindergarden lesson on Liberty to me. not a lot of hard fact there. BUT while on the liberty aspect. I have seen you libertarians say that there will me NO MORE patents in the new world order. Isn't something I invent using MY brain and resources, MINE to sell and not to be GIVEN to others for FREE, because there are no patents any more??
So this is a "natural law" because....... you Libertarians say it is enough times?? I know that works on FOX news, but need a little more to go on. You didn't read the article on chile, just fled the thread? and ya somalia is exactly what you are proposing. NO government, NO rules. Or would you like to add some "RULES" to your "free market" now?
That was just a bunch of strawmans and ad homs that addresses none of the points in the video. Instead of saying this is kindergarten lessons (which it actually is, I'm not sure how you're not grasping this yet lol), address the points that are wrong or don't make logical sense.
but monkeys don't force other monkeys not to do things, or to do things, unless it infringes on their rights or freedoms. as far as i know at least, i'm not a zoologist
You are just spewing more ad homs and strawmen. And no I didn't read the chile article or open it up, were going to focus on one thing at a time and not divert the subject of discussion.
well they do force (most of the time voluntary, call it forced if you want) members to give food to the ones that do not have any... but let's not get too far off track with the original assumption that was made, which was somehow a fully deregulated free-market is binded to human nature and laws. that argument won't float too far when trying to support an agenda of libertarianism.
Seriously?? "It's based in natural law, that's really the only proof you need to know" seriously? Tell this to the homeless and poor, they could use this advice. I did not know that all it takes is a balance with nature to live. And here I am with a job, when all I had to do was get in balance with nature! you are real easy to convince, I need a bit more proof. The video had proof in it?? The video had some "life lessons" for the young in it. Hardly the proof that "free markets" WORK.
Natural law meaning it is based on the concept of self-ownership. You come into this world with your body, your life, and the potential to achieve happiness. That is the only thing that is guaranteed. So you base the system of government around those facts. That is what was intended in our Constitution. Why do you think people say "God-given" rights...substitute Nature for God. Same difference. Any other rights enforced besides the right to self-ownership are man made and are subject to flaw.
That would be anarcho-capitalism. The government exists to protect people from force and fraud in a free market. The US Constitution is a great example of what the role of government should be, protecting liberty... Not managing every facet of our lives.
You obviously didn't understand the video. It explains the philosophy of self-ownership. Do you even know what that means? And It's explained like that with the animations to make it as easy and logical to understand as possible. Plus, it's not a hard concept to grasp so it doesn't really need to be a big complicated explaination. Again, address specific points in the video that dont make sense. Your cant just say its horseshit without backing it up. Also stop only quoting some of my post. You just cut out everything you don't want to hear and address very small portions of my posts that fit your agenda...