Capitalism vs. Socialism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by rollinjoints, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. #1 rollinjoints, Dec 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2011
    This is a thread to quarrel over which economic system is the best.

    Personally, I'm a democratic socialist. I find, quite often, that people don't know what this means. Most people, I think, have no idea what the term socialism means. My own history teacher didn't know the distinction between communism and socialism; so allow me to explain.

    This means I believe that the means of production should be democratically in the hands of workers and that government has a legitimate role in the economy; one which doesn't limit the freedoms of people but of corporations (and protects people from corporations), and one which provides for the common good.

    I am also, as it turns out, a libertarian. This isn't libertarian as in Ron Paul, American, Libertarian Party libertarianism, but traditional libertarian which revolves around the freedom of individual people. Libertarian is a word which has been stripped of its original meaning. Most people think socialists want an Orwellian nightmare, but allude the fact that George Orwell, from which the term Orwellian comes, was a democratic socialist to his dying day, and wrote about totalitarian governments (Nineteen Eighty Four). He was a libertarian, and so am I.

    I, essentially, find free market capitalism to be a system which thrives on overconsumption and exploitation.

    Anyone agree? Disagree? Make your case.

  2. You mean capitalism by definition, or what our government claims is capitalism? (which is actually fascism).
  3. I mean free market capitalism, which of course naturally leads to fascism.

  4. Capitalism gives more consumption because it produces the most wealth, which raises the standards of living for all. Capitalism gradually lifts the whole economy, which results in real wages increasing for all, and prices that come down, which help the poor the most.

    How do you propose resources be efficiently used in an economy without free market prices?
  5. That's what capitalism is on paper. In reality it's much different.

  6. How? Just for fun...we haven't had "free market capitalism" in our lifetimes, or our parents lifetimes, or our grand parents lifetimes...or our great grand parents lifetimes.
  7. #8 rollinjoints, Dec 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2011
    Wrong. Wages are driven down in a competitive free market in order to keep prices low. This doesn't produce wealth for all, this produces wealth for those at the top. Even though consumption increases, the system is built upon exploitation. Why else would minimum wage have to be instituted (which isn't an aspect of the free market)?

    I never said that we did.

    Free market capitalism leads to corporatism, fascism and the like because it does away with regulation. Without rules, those at the top can become so powerful that their influence naturally extends to the government.
  8. Maybe the depreciation of the dollar has something to do with it.

    Just speculation ya know, no evidence of the Federal Reserve devaluing our currency over the last 98 years whatsoever. :rolleyes:
  9. The dollar is depreciating for a reason, think about it.


    Open your eyes....
  10. well if you are a true socialist surely you don't support the Federal Reserve? A Private bank that controls the money supply.
  11. I don't support anything our government does anymore, because it's in their interest.

  12. What are you referring to?

  13. Well good! but I was sort of asking the OP. :)

  14. So how did we get the corporatism and fascism we have today? Federal Reserve? :confused:

    Are you just assuming everything? If so, good luck!

  15. Nope. Poverty in America was driven down by free market capitalism, and it's being diminished greatly in China since they have introduced more free market principles into their economy. Capitalism has been shown to be the only thing that accomplishes that goal. Wages only drop in our system because of government intervention in the economy, i.e. inflation destroying the value of the dollar and taxation and regulation creating such a drag on the economy that high wages are no longer possible. Capitalism allowed Henry Ford to pay his workers record high wages in a time with no minimum wage laws, practically no income tax, and little regulation. Also minimum wage laws in our economy don't increase wages, they simply increase unemployment. The government can't dictate wages above market values. Jobs that offer less productivity than the minimum wage are just lost. There is plenty of research on the minimum wage effects.

    Lastly the free market is not about exploitation at all. The fact that it's called the free market shows you that it's ultimately about liberty. People come together voluntarily and exchange goods/labor with one another in a free economy. There is no exploitation involved. All parties benefit.
  16. If you have ever purchased weed, that was free market capitalism - not exploitation. ;)

  17. Well, first off, I'm not a neoliberal. I don't believe the laissez faire approach works. That said, I'm also not a corporatist. The Federal Reserve is a corporatist entity, so I can't help but have contempt for it in its current form.

    I do, however, think it is necessary to have a central bank, which assists the economy during recessionary or inflationary gaps (one controlled by the government democratically).

  18. The recessions and depressions are created by the central bank. The best thing a central bank can do to prevent them is to not exist so that they aren't created in the first place.

    You drank the Keynseian Kool Aid. You believe in lies.
  19. I gotta unsubscribe, I feel like throwing my computer across the room... lol


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