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Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by TokingToker, Dec 18, 2007.
I wish to be enlightened.
Why do you wish this?
Who does not wish to be enlightened? Who does not wish to gain understanding?
What do you think you have to do to gain a more intricate understanding?
Follow the path that buddha was on
No, God has already experienced that through Buddha. You have your own path. The answer is that you ask specific questions.
Woah I felt that.
haha Cool man.
Sadly, God and Buddha are mutually exclusive. Enlightenment means realising there is no soul or god in the traditional sense, which you should already know. You seem to mention god a lot for someone who claims to be enlightened?
Once again buddy, I agree. Enlightenment can involve any religion..... Buddha did his own thing..... with his own inspirations. It has nothing to do with what one person considers 'god'.
Being 'enlightened' and having a personal opinion on god usually doesn't go together.
"And it really doesn't matter if I'm wrong,
I'm right where I belong.
I'm right where I belong.
You see the people standing there
who disagree and never win
and wonder why the don't get in my door."
I have to apologise for keep talking about realisation so strictly, and if anyone wants to define themselves as enlightened within their own terms then so be it. But the whole idea of enlightenment, the first methods of reaching it, came first from Hinduism, then later to Buddhism, complete with specific definitions of what it is and is not. If you have some kind of experience that doesn't fit with their definitions then it isn't enlightenment - and therefore you shouldn't use the term. It's like hopping and calling it running, you can't just change the meaning of terms to suit what you want them to mean within your own context. You can't have a christian version of enlightenment , because enlightenment refutes christianity, but you can have a 'religious experience'. Call it maybe 'God-Awareness' perhaps, if it does contain the ideas of god and a soul? - but certainly not enlightenment, where it becomes apparent that neither god, in the traditional sense, or soul exist. There's certainly a need for a proper definition of religious experience, as opposed to enlightenment.
So basically you're worried about semantics? Touchy.
I say the words I say for a specific reason. You may like my use of them or not.
well then do it. its not just going to happen to you by chance. you have to make a conscious decision to reach within yourself and find it.
(example) watching tv and eating doritos all day arent going to do anything to help you. eventually you will realize that watching tv and eating doritoes are making you fat and lazy, its filling you with negative energy and the consumerist ideal.
meditate, do yoga, read some books, love. that time spent watching tv or going to the bar could be used to realize something and hone your focusing skills.
do this, keep this thread updated and we will give you advice.
It isn't about what I personally think, Buddhism and Hinduism have their own definitions of enlightement. If you want to be considered to be enlightened, then it's obvious it would have to be via their definitions of it, not your own. If it wasn't that way, anybody with a funny feeling and a hunch could call themselves enlightened.
techniqually your all comitting what we call ''sin''
your elivating a human beings name to that of a HIGHER being (the creator)
...religion,saints,philosophies etc etc are all tools to keep people divided and ignorant buddha,moses,jesus etc etc all in the same...
Nope. We're not.
to be enlightened follow buddha's teachings: the eightfold path, 5 precepts and learn the 4 noble truths. Upon this, you can reach full nirvana after death, and maybe a couple steps away from it in real life.
I wasn't aware that in order to be enlightened you had to follow the Hindu or Buddism rules; enlightenment is not held by any specific teaching, enlightenment is within you.
To this end true Christianity does teach about enlightenment, it is called salvation, or the kingdom of heaven. However, in the Roman bible that we read the path to salvation/enlightenment is obscured.
Anyways, my point is no specific teaching has the monopoly on enlightenment, every man women and child has the ability to become enlightened, regardless of age, race, religion, creed, or color. However, I should point out that everyone does not have the capacity to become enlightened, but everyone can increase their capacity, if they work on it.
Enlightenment in the bible is often referred to as the knowledge between good and evil.
In Genesis we see that "Man becoming as one of us (Gods)" having knowledge of Good and Evil, was the biblical cause of getting thrown out of the Garden of Eden, lest they eat from the tree of life and have immortality.
From this stand point, it could be seen that God does not want us to become enlightened. However I look at it from a different perspective.
Once you have achieved the knowledge of good and evil you must be tested before you can achieve immortality.
The reason for this is that once you have the knowledge of Good and evil, you have the capacity to truly do good, or do true evil; one way will bring you poverty and hardship as well as eternal life, while the other will bring you wealth and an easy life.
This passage of scripture in the bible is talking about becoming enlightened:
True, you don't have to be a Hindu or Buddhist to become enlightened, but they invented the term for something in particular. And that isn't the experience you talk about below. I am not saying for one second that there aren't other experieneces of a very deep nature, but for it to be enlightenment, according to the people who invented the word, then your experience has to take a particular form and contain particular information.
You can't take another experience altogether and say it's the same thing. The passage of the bible you quote isn't even remotely like enlightenment.
No, with all due respect, I know what the bible says about salvation and it is not anything like the experience we're talking about, I've studied all sources of these expereinces, including the bible, trust me, it isn't another word for salvation, or knowing the difference between good and bad. This is Wiki', but in this case it's as good as any:
In theology, salvation can mean three related things:
being saved from something, such as suffering or the punishment of sin - also called deliverance;
being saved for something, such as an afterlife or participating in the Reign of God - also called redemption
social liberation and healing, as in liberation theology.
I absolutely agree. Except that christianity (and yes, I know about the contemplative studies) does not teach any means to reach enlightenment. It makes no mention of the state at all. The only places it comes close are in some of the gnostic gospels, where Jesus words are uncannily like hindu texts.
No, sorry, it isn't. None of the above regarding enlightenment is true. It's nothing to do with immortality, or good and evil, that's the whole point.
What do you think enlightenment is?
Eh, I came on here wondering if what I saw was real or a complete fabrication of my mind- and what I experienced was labled enlightenment by a couple people...
Maybe it was an incorrect diagnosis, but the point is there aren't too many words to describe knowing the truth and it being different than scientific knowledge.
In fact I experienced the same type of thing that MelT did, yet because of the way I see it- it's different.
I think the bottom line is we are the universe- bickering about what that really means only causes hostility...