The 4th amendment of the bill of rights states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Starting a new job is not probably cause for drug use, so why are businesses allowed to "search" your urine for drugs? I got thinking about this because I am looking for an internship. No idea when an opportunity could arise and I'd have to submit a urine sample. I am not going to be able to smoke until I have received and offer and taken to drug test. It could be as soon as a week or two from now, as I have an interview with Microsoft tomorrow. It could also be close to the end of the school year. I hate this . What are your thoughts, don't pre employment drug screenings seem to violate our rights as American citizens?
Many of our rights have been violated. That being said, no company is going to go against the big fed gov machine . But yes by definition , it is unconstitutional, and it will be enforced due to the war on drugs. I hate it too, recently i had to take a piss test for a d.o.t. physical.
Yes, they are. So are Federal Income Taxes. So are Victimless Crimes. So are private prisons. So are many of the abuses of police power. So are the Patriot Acts I and II, which have effectively replaced the Constitution and rendered this thread next to useless. I agree though. Unfortunately, the Constitution has been watered down to the point that it is largely a dusty piece of trivia. I don't believe a fully accurate copy exists anywhere anymore. The Constitution is only worth our collective willingness to fight to see it preserved. Same as Freedom.
i dont think so because i don't believe they are legally required to test new employees, and you consent to taking a drug test when you apply.
no they are not unconstitutional... if they were govt imposed then yes they would be. but as an employer you have the right to demand a drug free work environment and the right to screen your new hires... saying an employer cannot do that would be unconstitutional
This and alot of major corporations are given huge subsidies and incentives by the government to encourage drug testing. The testing companies have very deep pockets and therefore pull alot of weight with the government. Its all money and corruption at the end of the day.
Business do drug testing to get the "Safe" or "Drug Free" workplace designation, thereby lowering the costs of their group benefit rates. It's about insurance.
i dont disagree, but my statement stands and every day of the week you can find govt at the root of nearly every problem
Go back and study the constitution. It makes no exceptions for businesses, as it is the Universal Law of the Land, but which ANY entity must abide. The Constitution, if taken literally, is quite clear that corporations, in present state, are unconstitutional entities in and of themselves. Corporate restrictions were removed, slowly but surely, until now corporations have more power under the Bill of Rights than American Citizens. Yes, drug testing is unconstitutional. NORML provides an excellent write up on the history: Historical Legal Basis for Drug Testing - NORML
while i agree the concept of a corporation itself is unconstitutional, the premise of the constitution is to limit govt power and preserve individual rights... opting for employment is voluntary
the only part you are missing is this requires "unreasonable" situations. When you sign the document stating they can DT you, it became legally reasonable for them to do so, under your own permission
If anyone's interested on why, exactly, corporations of today are unconstitutional, here's the full scoop: Corpate Law But yes, the contract is one of the most powerful tools of the tyrant. I, personally, have turned down a lot of opportunities because they do random testing. Even when I didn't smoke. I stand by my morals as much as possible. If more people would do the same, things would change for the better and faster. Don't support Prohibitionists - Politicians or Corporations.
I agree corps and shit today are very unconstitutional on many levels, but a DT that you sign an agreement to take, is constitutional, lol.... If you agree to do it, and its not something illegal (i mean the outcome of the contract isnt illegal, if it has a lawful purpose, its a valid contract) then you are within a reasonable situation to be drug tested... Now if you had never agreed to ever taking a drug test, and your company came out of no where after employment and forced you to take one without having you sign an agreement, they are in breach of the constitution But im also not saying i agree with the tests... just saying its not outside of the constitution haha
Now I am NOT supporting drug testing of any kind here but just to play devils advocate wouldnt it make sence that a company owner, in a truly free country, would have the right to test employees since, as mcgibblets said, no one is forcing the employees to take that test and work there? Even if they are being coherced, they still have the right to choose to follow suit and fall in line.
Sure, absolutely. A contract is a contract, after all. Can't argue that. Now, roadside, police-administered, compulsive drug testing? Anyone care to take up this argument? Driving is a privileged, right, even though our taxes pay for the infrastructure and enforcement. The fundamental morals of drug testing are completely flawed, no matter who you dress it up with legalities. It won't change until it becomes culturally unacceptable to drug test. That could take a very, very long time.
Eh... i mean, a road side drug test... doesnt make sense... a road side ABILITIES test, does... if your too high to drive, your to high to drive hahaha. Its not legal to drive under the influence of any drug, so they enforce that.... driving is a dangerous game, keeping it safe makes sense to me
I agree, but I'll be damned if I'll let some half-trained pig stick me with a needle because I just worked a 12 hour work day or have an allergy flare-up. http://cannabisnews.com/news/16/thread16969.shtml This would result serious assault charges on my part. This is a witch hunt.
yes this was my point exactly too. they aren't unconstitutional because nobody is forcing them on you. it's perfectly allowed for you to never take a drug test in your entire life, you just probably won't ever get a job that way. it may be a fucked up system but it's not unconstitutional.
If you work in technology, at least, you rarely need to drug test. Government not included. In my 15 year career, working for 7 major software development firms, I've never taken a piss test for employment. Now I must admit, I've taken several for contract work and.. ahemm.. probation and court supervision and such. I have priors on my record, never went to college and STILL I have never taken an piss test for a full time employer. I've never NOT had a job. I've never been fired from one. Just learned to write code and surfed a huge string of acquisitions from one shop to the next. Perhaps this has allowed me to dodge a lot of preemployment tests, but otherwise I've never even heard of a random test at any of these companies. There are plenty of employers who don't piss test, and fewer who do randoms. Look at small businesses, startups and in particular in the technology sector. The only real exceptions are IPOs, government and companies where safety is an issue (driving tractor trailers, etc). It might not be as easy, but it's definitely worth scouting out jobs that don't test - you might be surprised by what you find.