Hey buds...so as per my previous thread about foliar spraying I was looking into something to douse my plants with (j/k i'll mist them) and I know bioag has some great products. I already use their VAM & activator but as for a foliar spray I already have seaweed extract and i'm confused as to which of their products would do me some good. the cytoplus already has seaweed in it along with humic/fulvic acid so I was gonna cross that off the list but their tm-7 and ful-humix look interesting to me. Just want someones take on which one would be a better product keeping in mind that I have seaweed extract along with other nutes... is their a benefit to having plain fulvic acid as opposed to both?
GrimloxK I began using BioAg's products about 6 years ago and quite frankly it was easier to make decisions then than today with fewer choices (as far as their product line). I buy the following only: Ful-Humix - this is the latest name - same product as before under the names HumiSolveUSA and a couple of others I don't recall. This is their base Humic Acid product. TM-7 - the Ful-Humix humic acid with the Big 7 in micronutrients, i.e. Sulfur (S), Boron (B), Cobalt (Co), Molybdenum (MO), Copper (Cu), Iron (Fe), Manganese (Mn) and Zinc (Zn) Ful-Power - their pure liquid fulvic acid. This is the name used in Oregon & California which does not allow the term 'fulvic acid' and I don't know what name it's sold under around the rest of the USA VAM-Endo Mix - just what it says. I can't recommend the CytoPlus product because it's simply their Ful-Humix product mixed with some amount of Maxicrop Seaweed Powder as much as that pains me. If you want a powdered seaweed extract then I would buy this product from KIS Compost Tea as it's far less money than straight Maxicrop and I believe it's a better choice because of their extraction process vs. the one that Maxicrop uses though both use Potassium Hydroxide just to warn you. HTH LD
So lumper let me ask you this...the tm-7 looks enticing to me...could I say...foliar feed with tm-7 and alternate each week between the tm-7 and the liquid kelp extract? reason i'm asking is because both deliver on micronutrients so could they still be used in conjunction, or should I just use the tm-7 for foliar feeding and let the kelp extract be used for soil drenches?
interesting...so Mizza do you think it's worth it to buy as a foliar spray? and as per their application rates...they say .75g per gallon...does that mean 75% of 1 gram per gallon?
1/4 TSP = 1G ( http://www.bioag.com/images/TM7_Tech_or-ca_LR.pdf) I use Eco Nutrients soluble kelp and BioAg's Ful-Power as foliar sprays. Since the TM7 clogs my little hand sprayer, I do not use it. The directions say you can though. I use it for soil. I also wet my soil with it when mixing soil...
I've been wanting to try the VAM, it seems like a good product. Here's a liquid option of chelated humic acid that I've had good success with. Keep It Simple Compost Tea Brewers and Composts http://simplici-tea.com/images/LC-10Plus7Label.pdf
Eco 12, I've had good luck with this product as well, and the company in the link has been excellent to work with. I use it even less than their instructions of little bit fairly often. My only complaint, minor as it is, is that it stains my painted white grow box. I bought some of those little plastic suction do dads, (pipett ?)to suck up a 1/4 tsp or so and add that to a 5 gallon bucket (just enough to stain the water to tea like) at every second or third watering, and the occasional spray. I only have two cycles using it, but I think it makes some improvement.....MIW
I use their TM-7, Cyto Plus, VAM+Activator and Ful Power. TM-7 and Cyto Plus in soil drench at 1 tsp in 4 gallons every two weeks or so. One or the other every two weeks. I've eased up on the Cyto as I have other kelp products. VAM I use in powder form under clone plugs and as root dusting and also mix with water and dip roots. Ful Power mostly as foliar along with kelp or fish usually.
so I decided to go with the ful-humix. I plan on using that in conjunction with my neptunes harvest seaweed extract for a foliar, and using the ful-humix in my container in the next watering. Some powerful stuff...I hope I don't overdo it.
Contact Ryan Zadow at BioAg and ask him to explain why using their pure fulvic acid (whatever it's called in your state) as a foliar is a better method of application than using it on a regular basis in your soils. Humic acid - soil Fulvic acid - foliar HTH LD
Now if you were applying the Tera Vita LC-10+7 or the BioAg TM-7 as a foliar, would you need to do a fulvic as well? From talking to the guys at Tera Vita, they claim that there is a high amount of fulvic in their humic acid products (SP-90 for example) and that you're better off with a humic acid product because you get all particle sizes. Thoughts?
Good advice and accurate. Legitimate humic acids, correctly extracted like TeraVita, Mesa Verde and BioAg (and a few others) can measure the fulvic acid content and they do so and it's included in the Certificate of Analysis filed with the various state departments of agriculture, certification agencies, etc. BioAg's humic acid powder is rated at 12% for its fulvic acid content. I would imagine that TeraVita and Mesa Verde are similar. So to answer your question per se, if you're using a quality extracted humic acid product like TeraVita then you have the correct fulvic acid level that was developed by the plant millions of years ago. This why even BioAg will give you good advice on using their pure fulvic acid product because it is extremely concentrated. BioAg differs from TeraVita and Mesa Verde in how they extract these acids from the rocks. The other companies use the same method to turn kelp meal into seaweed extract using Potassium Hydroxide and BioAg uses plant enzymes to ferment the material to extract the humic acid first and through a continued fermentation cycle the fulvic acid is isolated. Think of fulvic acid as steroids. Over application will cause major problems in the soil because of its chelation capacity. It chelates everything including separating aluminum from the usual silica bond. Not exactly what you want to have happen and this and other reasons are why they recommend applying pure fulvic acids as a foliar spray. And there are other solid reasons to do that in its ability to exchange its Carbon and Oxygen cations for elements on its way into the plants vascular system. Even in the root zone this agent is quickly absorbed by the root hairs. Here's a citation from Dr. Robert Faust on the subject of fulvic acids: HTH LD
LD, Great post as usual. I'm not sure that Tera Vita uses potassium hydroxide. They actually guard their processing and mining sites quite closely. I think I know where they're getting the material, but the official line from the company is that they have a unique process that they got from the Russians (I think they have some info on this on their website).
Eco12 Not that it's necessarily germane but Dr. Faust partnered (non-financial) with the 'original' guy at TeraVita on researching humic acid extraction in their very early days. I don't know the whole story but the phrase 'when the Russian arrived' blah, blah, blah, blah...... Dr. Senn and Dr. Faust partnered up on extracting humic acid from kelp meal and they were successful and this was in the early 1970's. The problem was two-fold - one was that very few markets were available for such a product and the amount of biomass required to make even small amounts and separating this acid from all of the other compounds, elements, etc. in kelp - it wasn't in the cards. It was also Dr. Faust that put me onto using neem seed meal in soils. At one point in his 50+ year career he headed up the Biodynamic group in Hawaii and it was during this period that he began experimenting with this amendment on a fairly large scale. He was also the one that pointed me to the information of adding neem (or karanja) in your worm bins. Just in case you're interested, BioAg now offers a 2.5 and 5 gallon pack on their pure fulvic acid. I asked about shelf life and was told that since it's fermented it will last for years. The price (with the good dude discount0 is around $175.00 for 5 gallons and the price on the 2.5 isn't that far off on the per gallon price. LD
Yeah, I know they don't think too highly of Dr. Faust, though I can't remember the conversation exactly as it was a few years ago. That price sounds high, but it's $200 for a 55 lb. box of SP-85 (Tera Vita's cheapest option), which I'm estimating is around 4 gallons in volume. Do they have smaller quantities? Either way, I may have to look into that.....
I'm talking about their liquid fulvic acid. It's available in quarts and gallons - maybe pints. On their humic acid powder they sell a 100 gram pack that's available at grow stores serviced by NGW for about $12.00 which will make 200 gallons (1/2 gram per gallon is the suggested application rate) and again this contains 12% fulvic acid according to their filings. I think that you'll find their humic and fulvic acid products to your liking. LD