Advanced Nutrients Vs. General Hydroponics - Side-By-Side

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Grow Journals' started by jakesterjammin, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. #1 jakesterjammin, Nov 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2011
    OK all, sorry for the delay here in this nutrient side-by-side testing..
    3 weeks before my last "test scrog" was complete, hurricane Irene come up the seaboard and about wiped us off the face to the plant...

    Everything that was not on the third floor was under water..
    Thank God all the new equipment for this side-by-side testing was in my office on the third floor.. After the water came the MOLD in the walls, basement, it was everywhere...

    Long story short, we moved back home and bought a fixer upper in the northern Mich..
    (where I should have kept my ass LONG ago!)

    What I'm putting together:
    Advanced Nutrients Vs. General Hydroponics - Side-By-Side Grow..

    This grow is from the average Job Blow which does not have the best equipment, or a lab to grow within, nor any no gas chronographs, and of course no overly paid lab rats..

    How I'm going to do this:
    We're going to do this side-by-side grow as if we have never grown in hydroponics before and follow the manufacturer's suggestions regarding what to mix, what our total ppm should be, and what pH they suggest our solution...

    The reason for this test and what I want to see (personally):
    From the average grower just starting out, does one nutrient produce more and or better than the next, simply by following their product suggestions, and maintaining the product at the suggested levels..

    First off I want to THANK a couple people, because if not for them, this would have taken a few more months to get off the ground...

    I first want to thank TIHSPEED, because without him I would have been forced to use bag seed.. What little seeds I did have were in the basement in the deep freezer (everything inside was out)..

    So hurricane Irene ate all my seeds... Then after the cost of the move and trying to make this house ready to handle the added elec loads... I'm fuckin BROKE and was just going to use some bag seed... lol

    Thanks to Tihspeed being a STAND UP bro and flipping me few seeds..
    We're going to do some Sensi Star..

    Then I want to THANK The Hydro Source! (little story why)...
    I have bought a lot from this company in the past, they ALWAYS have done me right in customer support, and have great prices..

    Trying to see how much funds I needed to get the rest of the equipment to start this side-by-side grow, I contacted the owner (Keith) and said I was a past customer, just went through hurricane Irene, moved up to Mich. bla, bla, bla...

    Told him, it's going to take me a couple months to get the funds up, so I can order what I'm calling him about, and just trying to get the figures together of how much I will need to raise... Asked if there were any way to catch some kind of discount or up and coming deals...

    The owner said he sees the town I was in got hit hard by the hurricane (he knew from shipping addr.) and anyways, just a down to earth MF...

    So goes on and says he is just going to donate what I need to get back setup for the patients.. Said that he would not want to wait a couple months if he were a patient in Mich with no dispensaries (Michigan shut down ALL dispensaries)......

    So what can I say??
    Keith (the owner of The Hydro Source) is ANOTHER STAND UP bro!!
    IMHO, companies that recognize they are a part of the community and give back to the community should be supported...
    And if you find a better price on their Nutrient Bundles (w/shipping), I want to know about it!!

    On to the Show:

    Mother Chamber:
    39" x 39" x 7'6" Tent (saved from flood/mold free)
    1 - 600w MH
    • (ballast was a backup I had with the others, saved the cooltube from the flood, the power went out before the water reached the light and so it didn't break the glass or bulb)

    2 - 3-1/2gal Ebb&Grow sites with 10" net pot lids, filled with hydroton.. (again works off gravity and super simple)
    1 - 15gal reservoir (with two 12" air stones running in it)...
    1 - 396gal Ecoplus pump...
    1 - C.A.P TMP-2 for temp control
    I'll have to find a fan somewhere..

    Cloner is the Lets Build a Clone Machine *Step by Step* - by Rumpleforeskin
    I can never remember the measurements and have always used his when ever building an ez-cloner.. TOP SHELF DIY GUIDE!

    (finishing this now)..

    Flowering Chambers and Battle Zones:
    Single chamber split into 2 parts built within upstairs bedroom.

    3' x 8' x 8' DIY Tent using Panda Plastic (super simple to make)..
    3 - 600w Radon Digital Switchable Ballasts..
    3 - 6" HydroLux Cool Hoods
    1 - Can Fan 6 in High Output 440 CFM Inline for the lights (I hope that's enough, if not I can bring in cooler air through the lamps).
    1 - C.A.P AIR-3DN
    1 - Active Air Co2 System
    1 - 16" Ecoplus wall mount oscillating fan (hope to center mount it and get a full swing to cover the whole garden)

    Each 3' x 5' SCRoG area within the chamber will have:
    1 - DIY R-DWC 2 Site system (2 buckets/sites/plants under 3x5 screen.)
    2 - Sensi Star clones..

    The rdwc is based off of Budslingers Recirculating bubble Buckets

    But I'm going to use 6" net pot bucket lids, then use a 185gph pump, tee the 1/2" feed lines, and both buckets will have a dedicated 3/4" back to the reservoir (header tank).

    So each 3'x5' scrog area will have 2 buckets and 2 plants.
    We're going veg. them 25 days, and flip over to HPS and 12/12.
    Last week both will be done how the manufacture suggests to "final flush"..
    Sensi Star is a 56-63 day, so around the last 2-3 days light will be dropped to 14/10..

    Both nutrient's growth and any or all collected data will be supplied simply as A and B.

    You will not know which "grow area" is being feed by which nutrient.
    Only in the end when we're done, will I say which was which was A and which was B.

    I'm starting moms within the next few days...
    Then I'm thinking at least 30 days after and in the meantime I'm going to be doing the chamber build, and then testing/fine tuning...

    Mom Tent is almost setup...

    Put together a small control panel to keep the ballasts out of the chamber..
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Other than adding that wood back I had in there, and then adding the ducting for the light and tent, but its pretty much finished:


    More to come over the next week!!
  2. let the testing begin !
  3. subscribed!
  4. Sorry to hear about your struggles. Great story about the people in our community contributing to make things happen. Thank you for giving back, by running this comparison. I look forward to watching it progress.
  5. #5 jakesterjammin, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    Thanks all.....

    Worked a couple hours on the chamber today..
    Would have been a piece of cake if the wife would let me grow downstairs where I wanted too, but NOOOOOOOOO...... Stuck me up in the dam converted attic...

    Its a nice size, but side by side scrog, its a pain in the ass because it has an odd shaped ceiling...
    You know, the cut off corner ceiling... :mad:

    Sorry could not get to do the videos the way I wanted for this grow..
    The guy which was going to do the videos I left back in VT... lol

    But normally I would just take a "square corner" (which my wife wont let me have) and tack up some Panda Plastic with trim and trim nails.. I buy a 1x8 board, setup my table saw and rip a bunch of tack board... Then tack up the Panda plastic and a couple 2x4s we have a chamber...

    We're going to use Co2, so I want to seal it up a little better...

    I still have to put the floor and ceiling in, and then install the roll-up door...
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Those square blocks of wood (in the pic below), I'm going use them so I can get the buckets 4" higher than the header tanks.. I wanted at least 10gal in my header tanks and setting level with the buckets only gave me 8gal...

    Those square blocks of wood will be under the floor when finished..

    I'll finish the floor, ceiling, and door over the holiday...
    After I get it done, I'll hang the lights, fans, and blowers...

    Then fire this up and see what kind of temps we got going on to deal with...
    I want to run a little higher (85-88F) because of strain and Co2...

    Then once we deal with the chamber temps, than we'll test out the rdwc system and see what kind of temps we got going on to deal with....

    With fingers crossed, by time we get her dialed in, momma is going to start kicking babies girls...
  6. oh man... I got to the party late... what did i miss????

    subbed for awesomness...:hello:

  7. LOL
    Not much, just trying to get it up and tested out...

  8. I haven't even seen a plant yet and I'm impressed, lol. You've clearly got a great handle on things, and I look forward to watching this grow. Best of luck!
  9. ah yeah. I followed the last one and I will follow this one. Can't wait to see the results

  10. LOL, thanks...

    Nothing to be impressed about yet..
    I'm not setting this up the way I wanted because of low funding....

    But this coming up summer will be the test... Pushing 1800w within 24'sq ft. during mid summer within a sealed chamber is going to be impressive... LOL

    I'll be showing you all how to make a DIY Chiller that can handle the heat from four 600w lamps and have plenty left over to cool the whole upstairs... Simple, easy, and a MUST have for the grower that wants to use Co2...

    WAY MORE to come... ;)
  11. #11 DenialTwist, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011
    Tih I was gonna rep you for giving this guy some beans (I must give rep out too easily). Turns out I've already repped you.

    Subbed. Happy growing.
  12. I'm using the panda plastic do you make a roll-up door? Guessing you hang the plastic where you want a door, then just put a 1x2 or round dowel on the bottom? Not sure how you can make this air/light tight though.
  13. Subbed for sure!
  14. good luck glad ur ok

    big shoutout to the hydro source and tih
  15. Quick update.....

    I have the ceiling and floor done..
    Spent a little more time on it to completely seal all seams...

    Now remember, this can ALL can be done with little to NO damage..
    Outside of spackling some nail or screw holes...

    Simply pick a corner of a room, the 2x4s that run from floor to ceiling are cut so they just wedge between the two... Their main supports are the main 2x4 down the front, and the ones going to the wall.. It just has to support Panda plastic!! I chose to and screwed the posts to the ceiling with 2" long drywall screws.. But again, small hole to spackle up if you leave.....

    At that point, give yourself enough on the ends to paper tape to the wall (use the painters tape it won't leave marks)... To tack up the Panda to the walls, corners, and wood, the Home Depot paint stir sticks and small trim nails work GREAT..

    You really do not need to do the ceiling, as 99% of the time there are white anyway, and the floor you can just lay down some scrap....

    Point being, you can make a tent for 1/4 of the cost of buying one, which you can make it to the exact size you want.... It also works just as well containing light..

    Panda Plastic = $40
    Wood & nails = $20 (only because I bought the 2x8 and ripped my own tack board)..
    So for $60 bucks and some time I have a 3' x 8' foot chamber..
    (which could have easily been a 4' x 8' chamber..)

    Last night / so far
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    You can see here I double taped the floor seam because of Co2 use..

    Here is how the ceiling has that cutoff corner..
    From the bottom of that cutoff to the floor is 6', so another reason I continued with the scrog, and did not grow 4 plants per nutrient side..

    Oh, and the foil tape line should (better) stay above the light line, so no worries with hot spots... The foil on the buckets better be shaded by PLANT! ;)

    Here is the finished chamber...
    Outside of hanging the doors that I'll do after I get done with the lamp cooling and chamber exhaust... Again them blocks are so I can get the dwc buckets 4" higher than the recirculation/header tank...

    The light's cooling is going to be sealed off from the chamber. The chamber will have its own exhaust, which I hope will be just for a humidity dump...

    First I will see how well just the 400cfm will do sucking from the room...
    I'm sure we'll have to step it up, I then will add a 400cfm on the front blowing and see how that does with holding a 84-88F...

    If that does not work, I then will take off the front blower and add cool attic air for the lamps' intake and see how we do then.

    Last resort is adding both blowers moving 400cfm of the cool attic air through them.. Should have no problems maintaining 84-88F at this point...

    Again, this coming summer I'm going to DIY a chiller and add a few Ice Boxes..

  16. #16 jakesterjammin, Nov 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2011

    We'll get to the door...
    Going to tack it about 2' down so it will roll up about 6'..
    Then I grabbed some dollar pinch clamps from HD..

    Usually I use the Paper Clamps, them black ones.. I get the ones with a 2" bite on them, then tack a 1x1 to the front of the outside wall beam... That way then they are clamped it makes light tight...

    But it's not going to be air tight...
    The bottom of the doors are going to be the intake for the chamber's exhaust..
    They will be folder in, so they open up slightly when the exhaust kicks on...

    Look at the second to last image in this post...
    You will see the 1x1 which I use to clamp to, but with the big ass clamps I bought, I'm going to me on the 2x4s too...

  17. Oh, I forgot an image....

    Here is the control panel between the mother tent and flowering chamber..
  18. Sub me in...looks to be the begining of something epic. I learked around your other thread...glad to see ya back on your feet about to be up and running. Good luck bro!
  19. OK, quick update....

    Have the SCRoG chamber done, but went to fire up the three lamps and only two started.. So after further checking I found the HydroLux hood was bad...

    So I'm going to email them tomorrow for a RMA..

    I do not have the R-DWC finished yet, but the pic should give you an idea how it is going to be done. The supply lines is a Teed 1/2" line, and the returns will be dedicated 3/4", which should keep the nutrient flowing through the DWC buckets..

    Also as you can see, I'm wrapping the buckets, lids, and lines with foil tape.
    I need to keep as much of the 86F chamber temp out of the buckets as I can..

    Normally we can get a 10-15F difference between the header tank and the chamber, but by wrapping everything and keeping the header tanks outside of the chamber, I'm hoping for more like a 15-20F difference, which will put my header tank temp in normal range...

    The bedroom that the chamber is built in will be in the mid to upper 60s..
    So I'm hoping to keep the header tanks within that same range...

    Here is the setup..

    Here is a pic of the door to wall seam after I installed the doors...
    You can see the seam between door and wall came out nice and tight...

    The bottom I will modify when I get everything fired up and start chamber temp tests..

    I'm going to finish the mother chamber today and get some seeds started..
    I will be posting pics of the mother chamber setup today...

  20. that is very cool about the owner of The Hydro Source donating you equipment. how rare these days.

    you too TIHSPEED, well done sir.

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