I want every self-proclaimed creationist/ID/religious/mystic with an open mind to just take a brief moment to consider, for shits and giggles, a little something "extra" Take your belief structure, everything that molds whatever you believe that is happening that we simply can't explain. Take what your deity entails... and now think of it as a simile. Think of it as a layman's way of describing to someone what's going on in the cosmos without being too nerdy about it. Like, saying the sun rises in the east and sets in the west is just a simpler way of explaining the earth's rotation on its axis. From our perspective, before we understood what the sun was - all we knew of it was a giant yellow disc that brought warmth and life to the planet while it was up, and darkness and chill when it was down. So that's how we described it. Now, though, we understand what we perceive to be a sunrise and sunset is just the earth spinning on its axis. Okay, if you can see where I'm coming from here - comparing what we observe to be a sun rising and a sun setting, an observer from off the planet would see as a mere rotation. Let's now take the story of Adam and Eve for an easy to relate to comparison. In the beginning God created Adam, and later Adam's rib was then used to make Eve signifying the first life on this planet. Now entertain this idea, if you will, as a simile. Imagine trying to describe to someone with no knowledge of modern science the beginning of life. You can't use terms like cells, atoms, primordial ooze, etc. You have to go to their level. Is it far fetched to take the story of Adam and Eve to be merely a simpleton way of describing single celled organisms splitting, and then interacting with each other to form more complex organisms? And this isn't too far fetched to entertain - maybe all religious texts are meant to be similes. Maybe the original intention of religion was merely a way to put a face to what we couldn't fully understand, yet. And if we can accept this idea, then I think we can see where religion (not a faith in god, or gods, or what have you, just religion) is fairly unnecessary in our lives, whether we have one or not.
is it bad if i gut laughed before finishing the first sentence other than adam and eve not being the first life (i think, been awhile since i read genesis), you're making a pretty good point... that story in some ways does sound like a simplification of cellular growth.
this is infinitely more reasonable and productive than simply picking a point in the bible to refute logically.
I think stories and traditions (similes) were used to explain things like this. Then I think clever men figured out they could use a big scary wizard figure to fool? fear? fuck? fence? the less clever populace. Religion is no good, the stories and the texts themselves serve some very important purposes in my opinion. But don't use peoples humanity to control them just because you can.
taking that book literally has done nothing but start trouble every where it goes...... DirtySix- all ancient religions had their "inner and outer" mysteries..... the inner was for those who had no problem grasping the simplicity of the whole mess.... and the outer was for everyone elts....... the outer is nothing more then symbols, myths and parables... the simple truths behind these outer mysteries....or symbols revolved round such simple concepts as....... the heavens show us that these patterns in the sky will always repeat.... that we will not be locked in winter forever..... that each time the sun leaves us and is weakened thru winter....it will return ....reborn in spring and bring us beauty and bounty once again..... the bible......was meant to be read between the lines....
BTW I love what you wrote and totally agree that the texts themselves are just a simple way to understand the world and morality and humanity as a whole. I think it promises a whole lot but that's another discussion sorry to lead it that way.
I'm glad I'm able to get my whole viewpoint across fairly clearly. And yeah, I botched it about Adam and Eve being the first life, but I was really just aiming at how I felt the the core of the story could be taken instead of as a literal event.
It is too bad most of the people who read it think those words are as black and white as the book itself. Fun experiment, change the bibles that have the red Jesus font to blue and see if we get more democrats...
there is at least one piece of the gospels that directs followers to read it literally. i never remember the reference, i want to say its in matthew but it might be john (or one of the other two)
I should have said the origins of the text were similes meant to explain complex things in simple terms. The bible was used by clever men, Emperor Constantine was the real entrepreneur I believe, to unite and control a population based on a collection of deeply meaningful teachings of Jesus united into one book for political gain. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (KJV, 2nd Timothy 3:16) But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NAS, 2nd Peter 1:20-21)
you wernt that far off...it is so often represented that way.... as if they were the first.... but the minuet you pay attention you have to wonder where the people cain was afraid of when they sent him off.......and where they came from? the biggest problem i have with the text..... is the authors..... i was personally convinced for much of my life these visions were from god....as there is nothing elts that could possibly come close to how it feels at the time..........
funny...matt and johny hung out with the jesus guy who told them clearly that it was the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law that was to be followed..... which means every word is open to interpretation....and needs to be ...in order to be flexible to fit more then one situation....
they see it how it fits what they want... seek and ye shall find..... if you go looking for something ...thinking you already "know" what it is....that is exactly what you will find.... if you think what the man in front of the room told you is the only possible truth...it is the only thing you will ever see.... and thus be stuck....following that man and what he tells you it all means...... if you seek what there is to find without the limitations of preconception....there is no end to what you may find! man only limits himself
Also - I don't want anyone to think I don't put my own beliefs through the same scrutiny. I feel like even our current understanding of science is as simpleton as religious texts when you consider how much we actually know about what's going on around us right now.
trust me...i have read all about it....^^^^^^ i dont need the helmet.... as i am fortunate enough to have been living with TLE all my life i have spent days weeks and even months in status........ everyday i must question what is real..... the world i live in is filled with natural hallucinations of all 5 senses.......
i know it's in there, but i dont have any motivation to locate it. the conflict is a perfect example of why i am a post-religionist. the more i studied things, the more i had to ask people for a resolution to conflicts, the greater the conflicts and then the greater the stretches... sooner or later that rubber band snaps. i'm way the fuck out on a limb, and it occurs to me: there is a simpler explanation. (or as i imagine zhangzi might tell me, what is above or below is no longer as important as eating the strawberry i just found)
it is everywhere...... people have made such a mess of what religion was to the ancients.... "a limited knowledge of the ancient religions in their outer form has been passed down to us in myths, legends,parables,riddles and symbolism. these creations as interpreted by most modern writers, and especially those selfishly concerned, are hardly less than childish stories, destitute of ether truth or plausibility, even through hiding the most profound truths and laws of god and nature. ancient man was simple in his desires. he did not vainly exhaust his intellect and strength to discover god as yet untrammeled by creeds, man did not depend on faith. he found god in the depths within himself. he learned to know god in the depth within himself. he learned to know god in the love which engenders life- saw him in the sacred flame which is heat and life. he saw the refection of god in the majesty of the blazing sun."
The difference for me, is I know that every "unexplainable" thing that science has yet to discover has already been understood and mapped out like any other science, it's more like physics. Only the lowest of these laws are published, and it is why I work on my evolution so that I can learn ALL of the mysteries, and not just 1/10000th of them from theoretical book learning, but through experience. That whole "what is the meaning of life" thing was answered thousands of years ago, yet people are still asking it. The answer is too simple I guess, people think a thing as complex as life should have an library as it's answer.