thank you for re-explaining, second time lucky.. so after reading that and looking at my drivers i smoked a joint and decided to do the only reasonable thing and ordered a killawatt, should be here this evening.... i have my full set up running through an extension cord(heavy duty, highly rated) its then plugged in to one of the sockets connected to the rcd... will i be able to plug the extension lead in to the meter to track the overall draw of my full setup or is that unsafe? it says it will overload at 3680W, my full setup pulls 3371W if all my equipment is on full which it never is. its currently pulling closer to 2kW it definitely helps. when i first started looking in to leds nothing made sense, so many abbreviations and equations, it felt like reading chinese. its beginning to stick now. Growing is one of the few things I have a genuine love for and getting balls deep in this side of things was daunting but im glad i wasnt put off. if i had bought a light id know if it worked or not, now i have a sick light and not only do i know it works, i also know how and why it works thanks to you and your repetition. on the topic of vpd, its not something ive ever paid attention to, or even really knew about...i think its easy to become too much of a weed perv and start watching stuff like that... ill need to wait until it starts getting cold to test the heating out but i was just wondering...to raise LST's could i use IR basking lights? they go as low as 50W which would be better than 600W.. im thinking a few of them spread over the full grow, of course i dont know how many id need.... i just dont need the extra light from the hps really, just the heat, the added red would be a benefit but its not totally necessary and the hassle of it man lol If i stick the hps back in, i will get grilled for spending 1k on leds lol..."theyre supposed to be better" lololol constantly justifying that purchase!! need to get a crop from them quick ahahaahh i did some light defoliation last night, im feeding today so i hope they will get a burst of energy over the next couple of days because they will be on 12/12 by monday no matter what. once i have the killawatt and know what wattage im pulling ill be confident flipping. germinating a few super siver haze seeds(my fave strain) i plan to have them big enough to bloom by the time this run is done, hopefully get some big stretchy sativa phenos and get to use my extra 20cm headroom hahaha
The boards would only pull ~190W if your Vo POT was turned all the way up or all the way clockwise, along with your Iout POT. You could measure the V between the 2 driver leads with a multimeter and slowly turn the Vout POT clockwise till it read 29V, and then put a piece of tape over the Vout POT and just adjust brightness with the Iout POT. With the Vout set at 29V, you'll not be in trouble of going over your wattage, and you can use the full range of the Iout POT (or close to the full range, ladt little bit of V turning won't change anything but you'll be protected by Vout POT) to dim. @ChiefRunningPhist I pulled this from another post, is this applicable for dimming the 600h 30a? Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
You got it. If you have a Vo POT (A style drivers), then you can use the Vo POT as a limiter. The driver will try to kick out as much current as it can (dictated by your Io POT) but only within a certain voltage range that you dictate by your Vo POT. Everything has a certain amount of current that will flow when X amount of voltage is placed across it, so its just a matter of limiting X amount of voltage so that Y amount of current stays within limits. You have to increase V (voltage) to increase I (current) but if you limit V then I can't increase anymore once that V limit is met. LEDs have a NTC, or a negative temperature coefficient. This means that as they heat up their resistance drops! So even if you limit with the Vo POT, you'll still get a bit of current climb as the boards heat up. If you limit with the Vo POT, a recommendation might be to tune it at the temperature you anticipate the boards operating at to avoid any current creepage past your intended limit. Current creep/climb will only happen if you're maxing out the Io POT and letting the Vo POT be your regulator. If you tune with the Io POT (as opposed to having it maxed out and regulating with the Vo POT), then your current wont creep or climb. When you control the current directly with the Io POT, instead of seeing current climb as the boards heat up, you'll actually see voltage reduction. The driver is ensuring that only a certain amount of current is going to flow when regulating with the Io POT and because the chips drop resistance (as they heat up) it requires less voltage to flow the same current, so the driver automatically reduces the voltage to accomadate. My boards are 110V boards and I lose ~1V or 2V as they heat up if I'm regulating current with the Io POT, so it's not like a huge amount, but it is noticeable and I just wanted to alert you if you were noticing different readings on your kill-a-watt meter (Watts = Volts × Amps, so if 1 of those changes, ie your current or your voltage, then your wattage will also change) from initial turn on to a few hours later. Your boards don't really seem to get too hot so you probably won't notice it much, if at all.
Ya you should be good. Most residential breakers are 15A - 20A. Watts = V × A, so 120VAC × 15A = 1,800W, and 120VAC × 20A = 2,400W. This leads me to assume your circuit will only allow ~2,000W before tripping (which will end up protecting your meter). Engineers build in quite a tolerance with their ratings, I bet the meter could handle 15% more wattage then what it's rated at before breaking. You'll be golden.
gets down like a vegan at a steakhouse thank you, im gonna check it tomorrow and might leave it on 24hrs to see what its costing right. so i tried to check the voltage and was at it for ages. I ended up leaving the lo POT on full and adjusting the Vo POT until it hit 600W on the killawatt. this means when the lo POT is at full i get 600W and can use it to dim lower. the reason i had to do this is because when i was taking the voltage measurements the readings werent making sense to me, ill post pics of what they were reading. You able to tell me what im doing wrong? i dont know if im just reading it wrong. i currently have them both at 300w(318w on the killawatt) and they are considerably brighter than what i had them set at, i should hopefully notice significantly faster growth as i think i was only running 300w total lol. i wonder how much this will affect temps and rh....
Each driver is pulling 676W on full blast so the boards are getting 638W... 1276W potential, just about 40W per ft² correct me if I'm wrong.... That's plenty! Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Super Grow LED - Hybrid = LED + HPS Grow Light Case Study Good article for people wanting to switch to leds, the combo of hid and led lighting seems to be a winner, I almost wish I had considered it but hey ho.... I'm looking in to reptile heat lamps as an alternative to running hps, I'm thinking get a LST thermometer and start with lower wattage heat lamps and work my way up. ## Using the example above with the 600W luminaires, the HPS luminaire will dissipate approximately 55% of the 2,046 BTUs as radiant heat directed toward the crop by the reflector while the LED will be as low as 27% as radiant heat. Also, the HPS will deliver approximately 34% of that energy in the visible light wavelength, while the LED will deliver 40-50% of it’s BTU energy as visible light (and is why the LED is more efficient). Vice versa the HPS luminaire only transfers approximately 11% of its total BTUs in the form of convection heat, while the LED will have 25-30% of its total BTUs dissipating through convection. ## How LED and HPS Lighting affects air and leaf temperature | P.L. Light Systems The radiant heat mentioned in this article is caused by infrared radiation, right? Cause all heat is technically IR radiation? ## So the light of LEDs contains very little heat, in contrast with high pressure sodium, which contains about 55-58% infrared radiation. Is that a lot? Not when you realize that the sun emits 53% infrared radiation. There we already have one big difference between HPS and LED. ## https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIDRAG&usg=AOvVaw3exO28EFw-D5MRCHDywand So what I was thinking is, if I figure out how many watts of hps it takes to heat my tent to a suitable temperature, half it, and supplement with that many watts of infrared. The ir reptile bulbs are dirt cheap and I have a 3/4ft light fixture I've been meaning to utilise. Only problem is that I'm not sure what range to get or if they are even suitable... You get the normal uva/B and you get the ceramic uvc ones... Uvc doesn't seem too useful but what do I know lol ## The Revolutionary Infrared A & B Deep Heat Projector DISTANCE TO BASKING ZONE 50W 80W 150mm / 6″. 55ºC 62ºC 200mm / 8″ 45ºC 51ºC 300mm / 12″ 36ºC 44ºC 400mm / 16″. 29ºC 36ºC ## I'd be more likely to get the ir bulbs that produce more visible red as well, those ones^ don't produce much visible light. I was also just looking at the arcadia solar basking lights which have a pretty nice spectrum and heat output, they go from uva all the way to IR A+B but I think I'm gonna stick to looking at just IR...unless someone has some input... Solar Basking Heat Lamps - Increasing Ambient Temperatures in vivariums I think I should be able to plug this in to the spd simulator if I can find the relevant info... I dunno if this has been done, can't find much info online about using ir heat lamps in grows. I have no idea what I'm talking about hahaha, id just prefer to run a few watts of IR than more watts of hps just for the ir it produces and this seems like it could be a fun and useful experiment if there aren't any major flaws lol..... Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Found out my friend bought a magnetic ballast 600w hps for his 4x4 after telling me he was getting Ish150s lol, he doesn't know I know yet. Gonna give him a spanking with the LEDs and prove my point... Hopefully he can afford the upgrade after he gets a crop lol. Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
You can't tell in the pics really but the plants have responded insanely to the lights being turned up. I'm getting about 25klux on most of the canopy, drops to about 20k at the edges of the net... My nets curve in a bit but the negative pressure means the walls fill that space anyway. Pretty shit hot coverage imo, 25klux on 90% of the canopy and 20klux on the rest, both lights 300w each at 22"...might turn them up a little Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Honestly I have never seen such a difference overnight Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Near-infrared light has the shortest wavelengths in the IR spectrum. They’re almost visible, and they’re commonly used in household objects because they’re not hot. Mid-infrared light is warmer than near-infrared light, but it’s not quite hot. With special tools, astronomers and researchers can use mid-IR light to study celestial objects. Far-infrared light is made up of hot wavelengths. This type of IR light is used in grow lighting to help cannabis plants like og kush and sour diesel bloom and thrive. Growing Cannabis with Infrared light | I49 USA
Great thread, I'll try to add something of value for you here. Far infrared. Are you planning to run FIR after lights out for heat? If it's only for 15mins or so after EOD then it will most likely help your plants fall asleep faster by switching their phytochrome photoreceptor (currently believed to also act as temperature sensors) Be mindful when adding them to your lighting scheme as too much FIR during lights on can trigger shade avoidance (stretching.) UV UVA is great for full cycle lighting, it has many benefits such as stimulating dna repair, increasing sensitivity to UVB and helps to prevent stretch (similar to blue light.) UVB is ok in smaller amounts and shorter periods during veg, and great for finishing in the last few weeks. It boosts plant resistance to biotic stress and can positively increase plant sunscreen production (THC.) UVC is first of all dangerous, as in you don't want to be in the same room as it ever, very very little if any reaches us from the sun. It can be added in your setup but it would mostly be used for its ability to disinfect extremely well and the ozone created scrub any unwanted smells. White lighting is great because it gives off a full spectrum. When you start adding supplemental wavelengths you will want to pay attention to the ratios you add them in to avoid unintended outcomes. So many cool things to learn. There is so much more that we just don't know yet. As a general guide, everytime I add different wavelengths of light the goal is to better biomimic the sun. (unless for a short term specific purpose like preventing stretch by upping UV/blues or to test a theory)
hey, thanks for the reply, and nice to meet you! i dont know if you have seen chiefrunningphists SPD simulator, its on his profile page and this thread, i plan to use that to see how the additional wavelengths affect my overall spectrum. The suns energy is 53% of the suns energy is IR so if i stay below the equivalent percentage of my spectrum and monitor leaf temps/stretch/distance between the lights and canopy i should be able to mitigate any damage or negative effects. I will be using 4x 54w arcadia 6% uv t5's once i can afford to stick them in, i think im playing it pretty safe with that amount. i understand that there is a bit of a knowledge deficit when it comes to the areas of the electromagnetic spectrum out with the PAR range and its effects on growing cannabis, but from what i have learned, there is a relationship between the IR and uv light which i dont fully understand yet lol...but its definitely worth investigating when the equipment is so cheap. if i keep the uv to a known safe level and work out a safe level of IR then i should be good. i want to start with weaker bulbs and work up to more.......
Nice. Let me know how those work for you. I learned the hard way overdoing it the first time using UVB, one I hope to never repeat, at the end of flower...doh. I use the Agromax Pure UV T5HO bulbs (75%UV-B / 25%UV-A spectrum chart below) and still dialing in parameters. I've also been trying to add different wavelengths of UV-A from leds, mainly the 365nm and 395nm diodes. From what I've seen so far the plants can use much more UVA, but I think a more robust wavelength range than the narrowness of current diodes. Something similar to what plasma can do, once researchers get the right mix of noble gases should create the closest light spectrum of the sun.
Your dial is selecting AC voltage, rotate counter clockwise 1 notch to test DC voltage. You want the "V" with the straight line (or dashed line) instead of the "V" with the wavy line. You can see here that any AC selection has a wavy line and any DC selection has the straight or dashed line... Your driver converts AC to DC so if you're measuring voltage and current on the board side of the driver (output side) you want to use the DC selections of the multimeter, if you're measuring voltage or current on the wall plug side (input side) then you'll want to use the AC selections on your meter. I wouldn't mess with measuring AC side stuff right now as you have the kill-a-watt to do that for you safely. If you're just starting out then I'd stick to measuring only DC stuff for awhile until you got a little more familiar. 120VAC actually goes from +170V to -170V and has access to much more current than an offline PS, so it just poses more of a danger.
Perfect that's one way to do it! Now you can use your Io POT fully and never have to worry about going over your wattage limits. Good work.
Yep you got it. You're starting to break it down into the significant components which will influence what you're trying to accomplish and that's exactly how I am too. Efficiency efficiency efficiency haha it's like a religion. Some of the reptile bulbs are UV bulbs and while these will heat the plants a bit and are useful, if you're trying to produce LST then the most efficient way is probably the IR basking lamps that don't emit much visible. If you see light then some of the energy being consumed from the wall is going into making visible light instead of making non visible IR. Some folks (me) use UV reptile bulbs to widen the LED spectrum a bit. The white LED only go down to about 440nm or so and that's why using some UV reptile bulbs are beneficial because their main emmision is below 440nm. Visible light is sandwiched between UV (less than 400nm), and IR (greater than 700nm), so there's IR reptile bulbs and UV reptile bulbs and they do different things. If you're after heat then you'd want an IR bulb and if you're after UV then you'd obvi want a UV bulb. Ill have to check out those links and articles before commenting on them.
The SPD simulator only goes to 800nm so its not ideally adapted for IR bulb integration. Its only for PAR "extended," or 250nm - 800nm and the IR bulbs will have greater than 800nm IR. I think I tried to determine the IR output of an HPS before, I'll see if I can find it. They have a huge spike around 820nm I think. Also not sure on the convection %'s listed by light type but I'd have to look at the articles and run some numbers to speak with more validity. You might use less watts to increase LST via IR lights compared to the oil heater, but you won't use more. In order to determine how much IR you'd need you'd want to determine how many joules of energy would be emitted per area, and the amount of absorption of the different objects and their specific heat capacities. You could model the plants as water (ie use the specific heat capacity of water for the plants to determine their temp increase), but you'd want to determine how much of the IR is going to be absorbed vs reflected and that will depend on the WV of IR emitted and the absorption spectra of the plant you're working with. Some of this data is known and some is a bit of a guess. It'd take a decent amount to model your scenario and I'm not sure if its really saving much money or time over buying a few and testing them out to see how many you need along with hang heights ect. I also am a fan of UV supplementing so you can grab some of those too if you want which should drop the total number of IR lamps because the UV lamps are relatively inefficient and provide convection heat. (Checkout this link below for a breakdown on an Arcadia D3 bulb...) DIY uv-infrared Supplement Also you can throw some 100W incandescents in there. If you use a shop light reflector it'll redirect the stuff shooting at the ceiling and sides of tent back down to where you want it. I think incandescent are only about 5% efficienct at producing visible which means 95% is IR and heat.