Bruce Lipton?

Nah, don't bother. I'm not having a fucking middle man conversation just because someone's too childish to keep their fingers off the ignore button.

 

He's not saying anything important. He won't watch the video. So, he's arguing about a subject without knowing the contents of the subject. Waste of time.

 

False

But thanks for listening

 

your in the science section, the source from where the material comes from is just as important as the material itself. It helps people determine how much to invest in figuring out if the speaker knows the subject they are talking about or not. In this case the guy has a proven record of bending the truth. If you wanna ignore that fine, I will not however and since you posted in the science section that will get talked about.

No one has thought everything is determined by the genes for a long time now. As the guy says in the link he's making a case against an argument that is no longer valid, without having to use the idea that beliefs effect anything.

The membrane doesn't get it's job from the environment, if that's the case then how does a cell in the heart know to be a heart cell? Cells communicate with other cells via the membrane but that isn't giving them instructions. That's like saying an antenna tells the radio what channel to be on.

As for removing the nucleus, sure, that might be true. I honestly don't have that much knowledge of biology. My question is what does that matter though? That only tells you what the nucleus is functioning as, if you remove the mitochondria the cell will live for a time also. Does that mean that his same argument is true for that part of the cell also?

 

sure that or the many books and presentations he has given with incorrect information. I have about a year left to finish my BA in Science for Electrical Engineering with a Minor in Computer Science. Not sure what my education level has to do with anything though, you don't need a B.A. to pull up a research paper that shows how someone is basing their whole idea on something that's incorrect.

look no one replied to this thread for a couple days after it was posted and I decided I would put a little effort to at least show that someone looked at it because I know I don't like making a post that has a view count of 40ish and 0 reply's so I gave as much of a reply as I did without investing too much into it because I've seen his argument before and I have 0 desire to rehash up the same old debunkings from a year or two ago.

If you don't care that he's given incorrect presentations before then fine. I don't give a shit but what I won't do is not address that he is known to give false information AND THEN NOT CORRECT IT. Being wrong is one thing but not correcting it shows a willingness which, to me and many other people in science, means you no longer get listened to. If you wanna listen to him still fine, have fun and go buy his books but you WILL get this sort of response here in this section BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS SECTION IS ABOUT. not your ego, or his or anyone else's. It's about showing information that is based in fact.

uh I'm not the one saying it's environment. At best I said it's one factor just like genetics is also a factor. It's the speaker that is saying that.

and the speaker is saying that you can send it a signal via a belief. Hence I stopped listening after several minutes.

look I'm not the one that needs to prove my idea's. How about you show us some proof that this guy is correct? I'm not the one giving a speech and charging people to attend my lectures, so you tell us why he's correct. Feel free to dispense with the biology lesson and trim those video's down so a bio major can come in here and not spend an hour listening to video's they probably don't want to listen to. Personally I don't think you will, nor will any of the other "supporters" of this guy. I await your presentation of his claims, until then I'm done playing this game.

 

Watchers of the movies may wish to read an alternative view of Mr Lipton's work It's a sell for Psych-K. The comments below are interesting:


"...check it out, Bruce H. Lipton, went to teach offshore, and then used this book simply as gobblygook pseudoscience confusion, to then refer people to Psych-K.
Lipton appears to have dropped out of science 13 years ago, and clearly is mis-representing the current state of science, as many of these guys do, and smearing real scientists, to promote their own pseudoscience.

[[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Belief-Unleashing-Consciousness-Miracles/product-reviews/0975991477/ref=cm_cr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar"]www.amazon.com[/ame]]
CUSTOMER COMMENTS:
____________________________________
The Emperor's New Clothes are Hype, August 14, 2005

Unless you're an avid reader of scientific jargon and theory, save your money. At best, this book is misleading; at worst, it borders on scam.

Most readers, like me, are searching for answers: what is the meaning of Dr. Lipton's miraculous discovery? How can I apply it to my life? How can it help me change my beliefs - for that is what the complete title implies: "The Biology of Belief: Unleashing the Power of Consciousness, Matter & Miracles."

Readers should be aware that Lipton's breakthrough "discovery" occurred as the result of emotional upheavals in his life that drove him to teach biology at an offshore university that specializes in accepting medical students who can't qualify for American medical universities. A misfit teaching misfits.
...

Halfway through the book, he was still spouting scientific jargon, explaining and re-explaining. About that time I confess I started to skim, as the suspicion grew that he had no intention of answering my pressing question. Okay, Dr. Lipton, this scientific stuff is all well and good - but what's your point?

He doesn't state his point until after the end of the book - in the Addendum: "I use PSYCH-Kâ„¢ in my own life. . . I believe PSYCH-Kâ„¢ represents an important step toward the New Psychology for the 21st century, and beyond. You can find more information about PSYCH-Kâ„¢ at Rob's web site: [...]."

That, my friends, is his answer to changing your beliefs: Rob Williams' PSYCH-Kâ„¢. Ah, but visit the website and you'll find no hint as to how to apply these wondrous techniques! No, you have to take a class that costs around $350.

Neat, huh?

P. T. Barnum said there's a fool born every minute. I was the fool for falling for the hype and ordering the book. Don't make the same mistake.
____________________________________________

Yet another new-age nonsense book attacking real science, May 15, 2005
By A researcher from Columbia University - See all my reviews

As a scientist engaged in biophysical research, I feel the strong need to redress the many dangerous, erroneous, sophistic claims and attacks on science that Dr. Lipton is pandering to the public. It would seem that Dr. Lipton is a well-meaning man, but I am afraid his departure from objective rationality is the equivalent of a man that has found religion and given his reasonings over to mere faith. He states that environment has a profound influence over gene expression and that genes in and of themselves do not dictate biology. He uses the word "epigenetic," meaning above or beyond the genetic level. Neither this term nor the idea that environment plays a role in biology however is new--and moreover there is nothing mystical about it.
...

Despite having learned enormously from the Human Genome Project, Dr. Lipton attacks it as a "failure" for having mistakenly predicted that the number of genes in H. Homo Sapiens would be over 100,000 and asserts that researchers claimed the project would demonstrate the belief of "genetic determinism." Although it is true that the prediction of human genes was wrong, the Human Genome Project is far from a failure. Quite the contrary! It is one of the most incredible feats of human accomplishments-right up there with sending a man to the moon. In fact, I would submit even more significant in accomplishment for the doors of continuous opportunities in research that is has now opened. The project revealed two amazing things: 1) there are only around 23,000 genes in humans, and 2) so-called "junk DNA," which comprises the majority of DNA and is non-coding (meaning it does not contain genes) is extremely important in regulating how the coding sections get expressed. Moreover, the project showed the remarkably adaptive economy of human DNA. The apparent dearth of genes is something of an illusion. Although there are only 23,000 genes, these genes get alternatively spliced together, giving rise to much higher combinations of protein output that could not otherwise be achieved. Lastly, no serious researcher involved in the Human Genome Project saw the project as the end-all of biology or seriously pushed for the notion of genetic determinism. It was understood before the project finished that genes alone were not an end-all answer of biological functioning.

Furthermore, Dr. Lipton claims that illness can be cured by mere belief. This isn't only nonsense; it is incredibly unprofessional and irresponsible. This is the equivalent of a TV Evangelist banging his palm against the foreheads of cancer patients, pushing them back down in their seats and proclaiming them cured, only to then say later to an investigating reporter who mentions that the patients later died that the Lord's magic stopped working because doubt entered into the hearts of the disbelieving patients. What an incredibly cruel sentiment. Yet this is in essence what Dr. Lipton is pandering to the public. If conscious belief worked this way, bringing about the realities we wanted, then we'd all be six-feet tall, rich, and have the looks of professional models and possess super human strength and ability. But where's the reproducible proof? Alas, reality does not work this way.

Lastly, I cannot commend Dr. Lipton for trying to merge science and spirituality together, for his attempt is based not on science-but anecdotal evidence and highly questionable research with no direct evidence or scientific proof. What Dr. Lipton offers, then, is not a new science-but another new-age religion. What is more, Dr. Lipton espouses quite frankly a ludicrous ideology. The title of his book is "The Biology of Belief." Biology is a science, and as such it is built on a system of facts-not beliefs. The Road Runner might levitate above a cliff and Luke Skywalker might levitate objects with his Jedi mind, but each respectively has Warner Brothers physics and Industrial Lights and Magic on their side. For the rest of us, trying to walk on air by stepping off the balcony will prove a comical, if not outright fatal, flaw in reasoning. I'm afraid gravity is not interested in what you believe of its consequential effects. And all the deep, faithful believing of otherwise will not change the outcome.

Lipton however mocks science and the many dedicated men and women devoted in making true scientific progress and expanding our understanding of disease and the laws of nature. To them, a debt of thanks is owed, for real scientific progress is made by them--and the only place belief has a place in that progress is the belief in the ability that we as a species can accomplish such marvelous, triumphant understandings of the world around us..."

Another attempt at merging spirituality with science. Let's all make sure it never happens.

Hi Bud'

MelT

 

I'm not aware of ever mentioning 'the environment', and no I have no fear of it, good or bad. What is there to fear other than people like Lipton who want to tell us half-truths just so he can provide validation for quack therapies like Psych-K?

Wellllll, no, that's not actually true as there were lots and lots of links from people, including respected scientists, so I picked out a random set of comments that reflected my own feelings as apparently you don't want any GC member disagreeing with you, so I merely put what others felt about this man.

Epigenetics And Transhumanism: Bruce Lipton's Teleology
Choprawoo returns, this time with help from Bruce Lipton : Respectful Insolence
Cult Education Forum :: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential" :: psyche-k

You've asked for a healthy discussion on the subject of him, so you will obviously have to start by addressing the criticisms concerning his statements in my post above regarding the HGP..

As we go on you will also need to address the fact that his qualifications are dubious and the movie is a sell for R Williams 'Psych-K' and the ludicrous idea that we can control reality with our minds. If you know nothing about Psych-K, then I suggest that you do a google and look for his connections to the same or this will be a very one-sided conversation.

"...PSYCH-K is a set of simple, self-empowering processes to change your beliefs and perceptions that impact your life at a cellular level." ~ Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D..."

I have many other links, or could debate this directly with you myself if you'd wish? Be aware thought that this will not be about mainstream epigenetics - the idea that many things affect our evolution, as that is obviously true and science would have it no other way. What we will debate is Lipton's version of it, in which he claims there is a direct link between 'spirit' and genetics. Please first prove that 'spirit' exists, I'll wait...


MelT