Mickey's Buckets of Glory. Multi-strain madness!

That 2 cents costs almost a dime anywhere else, man Thanks, and I agree. I use days from seed and days in 12/12 because everything else seems...flexible.

 

Yes, anything else is way to subjective.

 

I report days from germination (or from cutting, in the case of a clone), days of vegetative growth, days of 12/12 and days of actual flowering.

I don't count days from seed because the duration of germination seems to me to be uninteresting information. But my experience is limited and I could be mistaken about that.

Days of 12/12 vs. days of flowering is a common source of confusion for growers. The breeder strain descriptions typically specify the number of weeks it takes to flower, but they don't define their terminology. From observation, it seems that they generally mean weeks of 12/12, but since this is not really defined anywhere, it also seems rash to assume that every breeder is in on that particular secret.

Once I had decided that "weeks of flowering" referred to weeks of 12/12, I thought about abandoning the days of flowering count, keeping the count of days of 12/12. But I never did it, because unlike germination duration, the time it takes to transition from vegetative growth to bloom is in fact interesting and perhaps significant. I've noticed a good deal of variability in the time it takes to transition. I had a clone transition 10 days faster than the seed plant. It also finished two weeks faster. So clone transition time may be predictive.

Transition from veg to flower is also a crucial stage of development. The Cal/Mag needs of the plant spike at this juncture. The transition itself is stressful, like going through puberty. Remember that? I'm still recovering. So the transition is an interesting stage in the plant's life cycle and probably worth counting.

 

The only problem I see from not starting the count from germination is that it then leaves the "first day of veg" as a subjective arbitrary choice of every grower. That makes any data regarding events in the timeline of the plants life as scientifically unusable because "when" any event starts is diluted by individual subjectivity.

And even though when we switch to 12/12 varies between us in terms of our plants' ages, it is still a scientific event because things can be accurately measured relative to it.

The first date of veg is not like that. It falls in this broad gray area between seed and flowering. So if you don't start from seed and count from day one of germ, the phrase "third week of veg" has absolutely no meaning.

Basically there are only 3 scientifically usable events in the life of the plant that we can use as a group. The day it germinated, the day it got put into 12/12, and the day it got cut down.

 

What those are, planting, the start of 12/12, and harvest, are acts of the grower. They tell you what the grower did. and yes they are events easily observed and recorded by the grower, which makes such observations and recordings more likely to take place, get recorded, and be correct.

The transitions from germination to seedling growth, from seedling to vegetative growth, and from vegetative growth to flowering are acts of the plant. Because the plant is doing it, not the grower, and bells don't ring nor lights flash when these events occur, and because they are gradual transitions, not binary events, they are not as easily observed nor accurately recorded by the grower. Yet they are significant nonetheless. In the end, it is what the plant does that matters most. To put it another way, when I tend my plant, at each step along the way I consider what it is that I should do next. What I've done previously gets factored into the decision about what to do next, so having notes on what I did previously is useful. But what the plant has done recently also gets factored into the decision about what I will do next, so it's useful to keep decent notes on what the plant has been up to as well. It is more difficult to accurately observe and record what the plant has been doing, but it's worth trying.

The seedling stage ends and vegetative growth begins when the third leaf set has opened. I could see 10 growers calling that moment at different points inside a 3 day window. Imprecise to a human, perhaps. Not to a plant, though. She isn't punching our time clock, after all. She's living her life and she's doing it at plant speed. Keeping track of what she's up to is useful.

 

And, when the plants start keeping their own grow journals and selling their own seeds on-line we can take their word for it.

 

Will interject on the day thing briefly, I always count mine from a cycle changes and as for days I started using that term loosely once playing with the far reds.

I just made this hash here a couple days ago.

 

I agree with everything you say. At the moment I have the idea that you aren't "hearing" what I'm saying. I'm quite aware that there are all sorts of things going on in the plant that happen at different times - heck they might even happen at different times between two clones of the same plant given differing stimuli. And I agree you need to be able to look out for these and act accordingly.

But say we're discussing this cal-mag deficiency in transition. When did you notice yours?

A. 5 days after they started flowering.

Yeah? Well what the hell is flowering? Is it from the second we switch to 12/12? Is it when they have 10 pistils? 20? 30? When they reach a certain height? When they all lock arms and sing ring around the rosie? When? "After flowering" is unscientific. At least if they say 5 days from 12/12 flip we all have a reference that is usable. It doesn't mean that we can now predict with uncanny accuracy when the cal-mag def is going to show up - but it does narrow down the window in which we look for it.

The seed/veg problem is even worse. There's no way to quantify where seedling becomes vegging plant. I don't think it could be done even if you had molecular activity readouts of every cell in the plant.

But if we say 10 days from seed, it doesn't mean that what happens to Joe on the 10th day is exactly the same thing that will happen to everyone on day 10, but when we other growers SEE what happened to Joe 10 days from seed, well we'll give an extra look at our OWN plants when they're around 10 days from seed - just to check.

If Joe says 10 days from veg - when are you going to check YOURS for similar problems? 10 days old? 20? 30? It's impossible for that information to be of any scientific use.

I'm fully aware that ultimately we all need to learn the plant, and we all need to be able to detect these transitions and act accordingly in each individual case.

But this site is geared on collaboration of ideas and information, and if we don't have a standard of how we discuss those things, regardless of what the ideal is, then the information is less useful.

So to sum up, Alatar, you're talking about what growers should be doing and noticing and learning on an individual basis. And you're right. But that approach serves no purpose in a group of people with all different strains in all different stages of growth. We need verbiage in which to discuss events that are common to us all, and I repeat, there are only three. Date of germ, date of 12/12 flip, and the epitaph.

 

Speaking of which, I'm 11 days into 12/12. Haven't noticed anything odd regarding transition. What should I be looking for AND...(the granddaddy question of this page of the thread), WHEN?

 

Imo 12/12 just refers to cycle where as flower is more a term of morphology. Example your auto flowers which are cycle independant. You can see although the changes which indicate that the plant has shifted into it's next phase of life. Stating the current cycle though gives an indication of phase, generally it is a safe assumption to say a plant under 12/12 is flowering but again using an auto as exaple. If you were to place an auto in 12/12 in it's first week above ground it would still not be in flower just as if it was say in 18/6 at the 7th week it should be clearly in flower. The cycle of time is indepenant of cycle of life. Auto flowers accomplish this through genectics but even in the case of regular plants cycle of time may be independant through the use of certian light spectrums.

 

I still haven't caught up with the end of the thread. However, LOL! exactly mother fucker! What you got to say now b-otch. LOL I love the GC

 

And, before anybody even considers playing the, "I'm upset" card, just remember; "there is no spoon!"

 

I do hear what you are saying. You have stated your position well. I just disagree. But I've had my say. There is no point in belaboring things. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

You actually agree with the rest of us. You just don't know it yet. And, that's ok. Your still welcome to bring your smoke by any time you like.

 

Well get kicking. But I'm sure you remember a plant or two that started out not looking as well as others. But before you know it turns out to be the best plant you've ever grown.

So just keep taking care of them and you will be rewarded.

 

I think you made the right choice there, Mickey.