discourse and debate, whether scientific or spiritual or political or philosophical are not kind to people who can't separate fact from analysis from opinion. and that is the way it should be. i have had to eat shit more than once in political and philisophical discussions (still do ) when i have opened my fat mouth when i couldn't back up my shit. that is how we learn about the process as well as more completely define how we feel about the issues. it is a tough pond to swim in and not for the thin skinned. no kid gloves on these topics to quote a buddhist saying "difficult people are our best teachers" this can be viewed in a number of ways, what i take it to mean is: when we feel positive about something it is usually a autonomic sort of reaction, it resonates inside us in a way that feels good and as such we don't feel any natural desire to challenge it or analyze it...something that we absolutely loathe that resonates just as deeply however, challenges our tolerance, our understanding and ourselves to analyze and understand why it is we want to smash a television every time that totalitarian so-and-so or that pinko lefty whats-his-name opens their big stupid meany head mouth. this is EXACTLY why they must stay up!!! the world is not always a great place and politics never is, but not talking about it is not the path to making it better. the modern internet politics forum is , i feel, an extension of the pamphlet heritage of the end of the enlightenment, it is one of the few places that a counter-culture or revolutionary spirit can trade ideas with other wing-nuts. and i don't see many well thought out, researched, factually accurate ideas ever get shot down...miss any of that criteria though, and it is usually target practice...and easy practice at that.