Ok cool , I think with Caesers pics , and my pics , and a bit of science behind us , we can say clone seeds are bogus? I dont really know, I dont know alot about breeding, genetics, etc.. But it seems pretty unreasonable to me that there is such a thing as clone seeds....
Unless there's something special about hermie pollen that I've never heard, how could they possibly be "exact genetic clones of one another , complete sisters"? They are correct that if a plant had both dominant genes, the offspring too would have both dominant genes, but they would rarely be indentical because that will rarely be the case... but some would be... -Loki
I understand the basics of breeding... Keep in mind that no one has shown a single reference of any conclusion on this thread. So far we are still taking everyone's word as gospel. To keep up with the tradition i have come up with this.... We are talking about dominant and recessive genes, right? well if there is only one parent, there is only one set of genes, we already agreed to this. So if you only have one set of instructions, no trait can trump another right? what i mean is an "x" will become an "x" because there is no "X" available to take it over. This goes along with Xx, XX, and xx. Without any doccumentation i can still conclude that "x" will always be "x" because there is nothing to overpower it since we are using the same set of numbers for both parents. Im willing to go either way if someone can show me some literature that states the same genetics from both parents equal a different phenotype. I would love to know the answer to this, but like i said earlier... we are taking basic genus talk as gospel when none of us know whats really going on.
If the genes start out XX or xx, the offspring only have X (so they are XX, in the XX parent case) or x (so they are xx, in the xx parent case) But if the parent has Xx or xX, then it's normal Mendelian ratios. -Loki
says who? we're back to square one without anything to back that up. there is only one set of numbers to work with so how can any trait outweigh another?
I'm not shore on the science but the fact that i have at lest 2 clear phenoms one sativa and one indica from fem seeds makes it clear that one is not a genetic copy .
your photos were at least noticeably different than russy's if i am looking at the leaf width. But on the same note, conditions can make all the difference in the world and they dont have to be more than 2' apart to make that difference. No documentation either way makes me say this theory is still not busted. Really guys, show me documentation that hermies pollinating themselves create different phenotypes or not. we're still stabbing in the dark.
Well, if the parent doesn't have the dominant or recessive gene, then it can't pass it on. You can't pass on genes you don't have... Do you need a reference for that? And as for combinations of dominant and recessive gene, that's straight Mendelian ratios. Just because they're femmed, doesn't mean they combine DNA differently... The only thing that changes is there is only one parent, so XX will always make XX because XX crossed with XX can only give XX combinations because there is no x in the gene pool... but Xx crossed with Xx can give XX, Xx, xX and xx... I don't know what else to say, it's all as basic as it gets... -Loki
you still havent answered what happens when both parents are the same. this isnt basic or it would be written in every book and we wouldnt be having this discussion. one set of numbers, nothing can trump something else.
It's in every book about Mendel... peas will self pollenated and he did a lot of work with self pollenated peas... google "self pollinated mendel" -Loki
I need to go back over this in the morning but this is what im seeing now... it says clone sometimes... (25%) Basic Principles of Genetics: Mendel's Genetics ^look kids, reference now if you follow the chart, and consider that you are dealing with a single strain. you are not increasing the possible phenotypes within that same strain. all the possible combinations are present in your original seeds. So I will concede the fact that they are not exact "clones" and could produce separate phenotypes, but wouldnt they still be exact "strain clones", identical to your original seed stock that could exhibit any number of phenotypes but only those traits?
Yes, they would be strain clones, just as breeding two plants of the same strain would make strain clones... But with self pollenated seeds, XX and xx always make XX and xx... Otherwise its the same as two seperate plants. Technically, when pollenating with two plants, XX and XX still make XX, etc... but you have a chance to get some combination of Xx is greater because the parent genes may be different. A true breeding strain will have phenos based on XX genes, so no matter which parent, if they all have XX, all the offspring will be XX too... Thus making it a good candidate for femming because you don't have to worry about a recessive gene turning the pheno off. -Loki
I know its kind of long but if you truely want to know How genetics works that proves you can get multiple phenotypes from a self pollenated hermie is that plants have 2 sets of corresponding genes. These 2 sets can be completely identical or different or a random mixture of both. But when plants make reproduction cells these cells contain only one set of genes which where randomly chosen from the plants original 2 sets of genes. So if dense buds(dominant) and fluffy(recessive) buds are 2 corresponding versions of the same gene and the mother plant has both genes but exhibits dense buds because that is the dominant version of that trait. It is possible for a male sex cell that only contains the recessive gene(fluffy buds) to pollenate a female sex cell that also happens to only have the same recessive gene(fluffy buds) which grows into a seed that only has the recessive gene and will only know how to produce fluffy buds. So it is possible to get an exact clone from hermie seeds but very rare because plants have 1000s of genes. So 1 out of a thousand seeds could be exact replicas but even that is pushing it.
i dont think this would derailing the thread but could someone remind me on how self hermie a plant? all i have to do is get it to flower long enough and it will hermie itself?
you don't really think that any environmental conditions are going to make your GB1's turn sativa?? do you on a side not my room is controlled by a C.A.P complete greenhouse controller with multiple censers she is dialed in every plant gets the something
that is called rodelization and it will produce male nanners and pollen. lol, that made me laugh when i read it. I think we've deduced that exact genetic copies are not possible in seed form, but exact strain seed clones are.
lol sorry it seemed to be the best way to make my point fem seeds make sisters not copy's this i can agree on how about you
Seeds produced from sexual propagation can not be an exact clone of the mother. Only asexual propagation can insure the clone is the same as the mother. Any botany book will confirm this. Mendel's laws apply.
yaaaay, male nanners!!!!\ how long into flowering does it take for it to happen? for example, if a strain says flowering takes 8 weeks.. how many more weeks would it take for "rodelization" to kick in?
Yep I agree that any offspring from a female pollinating itself will create absolute sisters, the same as any seed stock you originally got the "mother" from. Although, your new seeds will exhibit any number of phenotypes, same as your original seed stock. we rule it starts about 10-14 days after they are ripe. Now to get viable seeds, you would need to let the plant go another week or two past pollination. Or you could just collect the pollen and pollinate by hand on your next crop.