Organic Higher Learning Resources

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Chunk, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. I REALLY wanna get on more organic than I am, But this thread REALLY INTIMIDATES ME , as well as makes my head hurt.. Im willing to mix up soils, and do some brews, but I truly dont know where to start, and this thread litterer overwhelms me, Is it possible to "DUMB DOWN" organics ?

    Mind you , Im not a noob, But I am a noob when it comes to Organics....
     
  2. i'm a noob myself, both organics and in general, but for me it was Teaming with Microbes book and Gil Carandang's lectures(a link to mp3's coupla posts earlier) that did it for me.:wave:
     
  3. Ya know Russ I think it is possible to break it down for ya. I'm an “expert” at being a noob at just about everything LOL, so let me share something here with you to see if it helps. Organic concepts can be overwhelming for a person to get their mind around and thus resort back to the 'bottle'. If I recall correctly you've got some good growing skills so you've already got the Big Six (air, light, water, medium, nutrients, environment) down pat. So let's just take medium and nutrients out of those parameters and focus on them for organic growing. The other four parameters stand the same regardless of growing style. Right?

    Medium: Since I haven't grown with coir I won't touch that and instead will focus on a peat based medium. Here's what you want in either a pre-packaged mix or a roll your own. Peat 40%, soil organic matter 30%, aeration and water retention 30%. To understand why this is critically important read some of LD's posts on cation exchange capacity or peruse some .edu sites with those words as key words. You can go as deep into that subject as you want and it will be well worth doing so but at least toouch on it so you can get a mental picture of soil chemistry and what's going on down there. Soil organic matter is critical, critical, critical and it can not be overstated. It's the 'majik bullet' for an organic grow. How you achieve this has a few options. But don't pass GO without dialing into the concept. It's the foundation for “feeding the soil, not the plant” concept of horticulture.

    Nutrients: Make a list of all the required plant macro and micro nutrients. As you source your nutrients check each one off to ensure you have the minimum requirement for each. As we all recall, a plant will only grow to the limits imposed by the LEAST available nutrient. So, we have to ensure we have all 16 of the requirements in a plant useable or microbe useable form. Where it might start getting a bit squirrelly is picking ‘which one' for ‘which nutrient'. But the bottom line is to ensure each one is covered in an elemental form that can be either; a) immediately used by the plant, or b) used as a food source by the soil microbes at which point they exude the remains which is in a plant useable form.

    I'm not intending to over simplify “an organic concept” but it is basic, repeatable, processes and methods that will get you to a water-only, relative maintenance-free grow, producing copious amounts of flavorful, smooth toking buds. The challenge comes in when we try to take it to a higher level of learning and start brewing teas, fermenting plant material, and growing culture of this and that. But even still, those concepts will start ringing true once you get the Medium and Nutrient parameters mentally wrapped around your noodle. Honestly, you'll start viewing the vegetable isle at the getit-n-go a whole lot differently... LOL... maybe, IDK!

    Hope this help ya some.
     
  4. Russy

    I'm not trying violate your security but you have 'Northwest' in your online profile so if by that you mean Pacific Northwest then here's the 'DUMB DOWN' version of organics. And it's 100% legitimate and definitely inexpensive enough.

    1. Vital Earth Soil - the reason that I can recommend this specific product is that they produce the earthworm castings used in this soil. They are produced from plant material = higher microbial levels. It's not junk. I and others have tested this product in AACT brews and it produced very high levels of the most important microbe group - fungi hyphae. Very high numbers which is 'generally' not the case in earthworm castings. I also am familiar with which specific peat moss that they're using. This soil runs $9.00 per 1 c.f. and if I were starting out I would not mix my own potting soil but would opt for this product. Here's a list of distributors in Washington, Oregon & Northern California

    NOTE: I have no affiliation with the young gentlemen who are behind this company. I simply took a bag of their earthworm castings several months ago and had it tested by 3 other individuals as well as myself. When I don't have enough of my own castings (like in the winter when the worms go fairly dormant) this is the product that I buy and use. They run $33.00 per 1 c.f. so use wisely - LOL

    2. Fertilizer Mix - since you asked for 'DUMB DOWN' here's a very solid overall mix. Down-To-Earth's Bio Fish and contains the following: Hydrolyzed Fish, Fish Bone Meal, Feather Meal, Sulfate of Potash, Alfalfa Meal, Blood Meal, Acadian Kelp Meal and Dolomitic Lime. If they would finally take out the Blood Meal it would be really nice. But I'm in the minority on that one - bloodmeal is one of the holy tenets of general gardening circles. It's still a very nice product and one note is that the 'Sulfate of Potash' is the chemist's name for K-Mag, Sul-Po-Mag, Langbeinite, etc. Very good mineral source and should be in everyone's potting soil, IMHO. If you buy either the 25 lb. or 50 lb. bag it's fairly priced all thing considered. Their compost (it's just Teufel Nurseries' junk) and their potting soil is beyond bad. It's actually one of the worst choices in the PNW and that's quite a statement.

    3. Fertilizers - you'll want fish hydrolysate and from farm stores the price is generally under $15.00 per gallon (128 ounces) and the rate of application is 1 oz. per 1 gallon of water so your $15.00 will produce 128 gallons of fish solution which is only going to be applied about 1x per week.

    You'll want some form of seaweed extract and here you have a couple of viable sources in the PNW. The first one is the premium-grade product from Acadian Sea Plants in Nova Scotia. There are 2 places in Portland that sell this - one store has it in 1 lb. packs and the other has it in 3 lb. packs. You can also order it online from KIS Compost Tea Brewers for something like $14.00 per lb. Rate of application is 1.5 tsp (or 1/4 ounce) to 1 gallon water. You apply this 1x per week.

    There is also a liquid kelp extract from kelp harvested from the Alaska, Canadian & Oregon waters. This is NOTHING like Maxicrop or other consumer level products like that. This is the real deal and runs under $20.00 per gallon and the rate of application is the same as the liquid fish product. It's not unusual and is fairly common for organic farmers and gardeners to apply the kelp & fish at the same time, i.e 1 gallon of water plus fish hydrolysate and your kelp source.

    Humic & fulvic acids? Your call. I think that they will maximize your efforts if used correctly. The best products (as well as best pricing) is from a company located in Independence, Oregon and you can order from their web site direct: BioAg.com

    With a soil like the one I mentioned the need (or even benefit) of applying an AACT is minimal - if there's one at all. I'd put more attention to wrapping my brain around FPE (Fermented Plant Extracts) and even here by going with a commercial product like EM-1 you can't fail. It's beyond stupid easy. Even I can do it. Usually.

    There you go - 'DUMB DOWN' organics. Easy. Affordable. Viable.

    HTH

    LD
     
  5. About time the man makes an appearance. :D

    Russy,

    I put this thread together, and still need to constantly review the reading to relearn. If you gave me a test on it I would probably struggle to pass. What is great about is you can take from it what you want/can. I read Lumper's posts and don't understand much of it at first. Strangely I find many of his posts make me understand previous ones, if that makes sense. I think of it as mental hand grenadelike info. Kind of like a good organic medium, this knowledge gets better with time.

    Bottom line brother, if you ever want to get a little deeper into organics this is some of the finest free information I've come across on the web...ever.

    I feel you though, some of the info makes sweat form on my lips. lol
     
  6. Citric Acid Cycle

    I had to quit reading this after a couple of hours because my brain was hurting. Definitely in the category of 'uber geek' but still very helpful. This science applies to plants as well as animals.

    LD
     
  7. If it made your head hurt, Im scared to even open the link, my head might EXPLODE !
     
  8. hell ya! good stuff right here
     

  9. :eek: I opend it :confused: your turn RUSSY :poke:
    didnt get it but I went over it :D
     
  10. LD,

    Great info!

    I live in SC and can not find a distributor of the vital earth soil. Any suggestions?

    I am trying to get my husband to make me a worm bin, so hopefully I'll have my own casting before long.

    Guys, Thanks again for all the work and great info!!

    Evil T
     
  11. Evilt, until LD gets back to you on possible soils, I would take a look at the ones I have listed below. He has suggested these to many of us in the past. I don't know if they will have it back in your state, but I have been using Black Gold Organic potting soil, which Sun Gro also makes. Anyway, look up sungro and look up thier dealer listings for your state. Any good nurseries will normally carry a quality grow mix like this. Have fun.Sun Gro HorticultureSunshine Mix LakelandMonroviaJaK
     
  12. Jak,

    I have been looking for Sunshine soil since I found this site and when I finally found some, I excitedly bought it and found it was not organic. It has slow release fertilizer 0.1-0.1-0.1. What a bummer.:( I did the search and that is how I found this one sunshine product.

    I have seen the Black Gold before somewhere. So I will visit a few nurserys and see what they have.

    Thanks for the info and I do appreciate the reply:)

    I am very open to suggestions and I love trying new things. I have the rice juice working in my kitchen right now.

    There is also bread starter in my frig made from SC wild muscadine yeast.

    So this organic stuff is right up my ally, just have to get the hang of it.

    Thanks again
    Evil T
     
  13. #54 jakrustle, Dec 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2010
    Evil T, I am not familiar with the myriad of soils and medias Sungro has, but depending on what that slow release "fertlizer" is, it may not be anything near as potentially damaging as something like the slow release Miracle Grow items. Have you read the ingredients of the soil? Let us know what is says on there. The sources for the fertilizer may be beneficial, organic type amendments rather than synthetic. Also, great that you got the rice wash "experiment" going. I have been doing a sprouted seed FPE and the egg shell calcium phosphate deal. It is interesting playing aorund with this stuff, especially seeing the positive results.Peace JaK
     
  14. Evilt

    Which specific product are you considering using?

    LD
     
  15. OK, this is what I bought:

    Sunshine Container potting mix and the ingredients read: This mix contains a blend of 80-90% Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, herticultural grade perlite, a starter charge and a controlled release fertilizer, solomite lime and a wetting agent.:cool:

    This organic growing medium is supposed to be my Christmas gift from my husband. So I will head out to several nurserys Friday and see what I can find. My problem with this is, I don't know what I am doing and they always ask me what I need this and that for and what are you growing.:eek: Do you guys get that question all the time too? I normally say I am growing herbs in my house.:confused:

    LD, I have several list that I have gathered from your writings.
    Soil Amendments: Alfalfa meal, kelp meal, Fish meal(hydro), fish bone meal(hydro), neem and or Karanja meal, crustacean meal.
    Minerals: Either Oystershell powder or limestone, Glacial Rock dust, soft rock phosphate, K-mag.

    Soil: Sunshine Growers Organic Mix or Black Gold organic Mix

    organic Humus Mix: Worm casting, Marwest Compost, Alaska Humus

    Also: Bokashi Bran, Rice hulls, Dyna Grow neem seed oil and liquid Silicon-Dyna Grow protect

    My husband will wish he had just bought me a diamond ring!:D

    What else?
    Evil T
     
  16. Jak,

    The Analysis on the soil reads:

    Total Nitrogen 0.1 Derived from:
    0.06 % Ammoniacal Nitrogen Polymer coated Ammonium Nitrate
    0.04 Nitrate Nitrogen " " " Phosphate
    Available Phosphate (P205) 0.1% " " Potassium Sulphate
    Soluble Potash (K20) 0.1% " " Calcium Phosphate

    What ya think?

    Evil T
     
  17. evilt, I was hoping you would read off some things I could pronounce!!LOL!! Anyway, I was hoping it would have listed some more common ingredients I might be familiar with - bat guano, kelp meal, etc. Anyway, as I have been helped when I started, I looked up the names of all the nurseries in a reasonable driving range from my house and started calling or looking them up on line. That, and do a search of the nursery associations in your state or college Ag programs, etc. Actually some of the better Feed Stores can carry some of what you are looking for. Anyway, good luck and if I think of anything I will send you an email. Take it easy. BTW, Evil, the dirt, etc. will be a lot more satisfying and fun than the ring!!JaK
     
  18. I do prefer dirt to diamonds.;)

    thanks & peace
     

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