CFL vs T5s and FLORESCENT TUBE LIGHTING

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by guerilla45, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. There sure is a lot of buzz lately about CFLs and I have been reasearching them and using them to veg. I am an "old school" type and a hard sell, after 25 years in the know I have learned that changes can hurt you if you dont reasearch. This is MY finding and may not work for everyone, also I have NOT flowered with CFLs. here is what I have found.

    1- All tube lighting has a slight flaw in that they put out more light in the center of the bulb and less on the end. This creates what I call "cold spots" I find that the first and last 12 inches of a 4ft tube are not up to par with my needs and plants need to constantly be shuffeled around to keep an even groth pattern. Also the light is delivered only from the top with very little intensity at a 45 degree angle. Also consider that you lose at least half of your lumens for every foot the light is from the plant.

    2- The "lumans" that ANY light puts out are not all used by the plant there are different types of lumans like "humane" lumens, I wont try to get scientific about it but it boils down to disappointment cuz even with a metal halide only about 60% or 2/3 of the lumens are usefull to plants. It has been said that the CFLs put out a higher percentage of usefull lumens than any other bulb but I am not 100% sure of that.

    3- When veggin' I consider lumens per square foot and how much controll I'll have over the delivery of these lumens. EXAMPLE: I have discovered that two 400w lights at 45 degree angles will preform better than a 1000 watt light shining down from directly above. We need to remember that there is more going on in this stage of growth than the eye can see. every leaf on the plant is preparing for the future and needs the energy it gathers from the light to make the transition to the flowering stage quickly and stress free.


    Now lets look at the given area requiring light (the grow room) and try to look this area in a 3 dimensional prespective. Lets assume that the floor space is 2ft x 4ft and the cieling hight if 5ft or more (a typical closet). At this point a "GOAL" is a must!! It makes no sense to just let them grow and see what you get, that will cost you money in the long run. My goal is an 18inch plant with 4 side branches and uniformity is a must in a small area. If one or two plants are 6 or 7 inches taller that the rest you will have to make adjustments. Focusing on "PHENO TYPE" will help out a lot.

    When plants are just a few inches tall they can be pushed together and moved around easilt but as they grow they start to become little umbrellas and have a tendency to block light from bottom of the plants. This is the reason I first tried CFLs, I needed to get light down the plant not just up top. Just like most of my grow bros out there I was concerned about "lumens" so I did the math as best as I could with the info I found. The results made me think alot about my lighting needs.

    A good flourescent fixture can put out 5000 lumens, at 4ft wide thats 1250 lument per ft. The flat plane that the light is coming from is not very user friendly. I am sure that most of us have had them hanging at an angle to compensate for plant structure and this Is a pain in the ass in tight quarters. Anyone out there ever drop one down on your plants?

    In a 2ft x 4ft area I can use as many as 10 26 wattCFLs on "Y" sockets spaced about 10 inches apart. They hang from thier cords and the "Y" socket puts them on a 45 degree angle allowing light to come from most of the bulbs surface. My bulbs are rated at 1750 lumens each. If I use just 8 of them I get 14000 lumens and use 208 watts of power. The best part of this is that I can position the fixtures individually and hang them down into the plants just slighty. this creates a 45 degree delivery as well as a top light delivery. Picture a softball sitting about 4-8 inches below the top of your plants and think about lighting as much of its surface as you can. Now consider that half your lumens are lost with every foot the light sorce is moved awat from the plant. CFLs are good at 3 inches from leafs on most strains but watch for burn just in case.

    My over all opinion based on "EXPIERIENCE" is that in a small area (such as closets or grow boxes) There is nothing out there that comes close! I am done with bulky tube fixtures that are soooo hard to manage and set so many limits in a small area. I have learned that the amount of lumens a fixture puts out means shit compared to where it puts them. you can put as many plants as you want under a tube fixture, they only use about 1 foot of that bulb max.

    So 5000 lumen 4ft bulb fixture 1600 lumens are not used leaving 3400 divide by 4ft= 850 lumens per foot, less at the ends, and no way to manipulate the delivery of the lumens. plus half the bulb shines upward and you dont have room for another fixture. I also find that these fixtures hinder air flow BIGTIME!!

    14000 lumens with CFLs 4666 lumens are not used leaving 9334 divide by 4ft=2663 lumens per foot. thats 5 times as much lumen in the area and my ability to manipulate the light and the fact that BOOTH sides of the bulb are used and no air flow restriction. from here its a no-brainer and I promise that growth rates are the best I have ever seen(in a small area) 8 weeks of veg like this is almost too much sometimes. I will do a journal on my spring veg grow and post it soon.

    I am not bashing T5 fixtures, they have thier place, but in a small area they fall flat on thier face by creating a cieling, you just cant up the out put cuz the fixture is HUGE.
    any way feel free to coment (please dont kick me in the ball if you dont agree) and any more info is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!
    good growin' everyone!!
     
  2. #2 Tyke, Dec 30, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
    Not to mention that t-5's cost a fortune to replace. One other thing I rarely see mentioned is that all the popular types of grow lights, flourescent or otherwise weaken drastically over time and without specialized equipment, there's no good way to tell how much your lights have diminished in intensity. I learned this from my reefkeeping when otherwise healthy and flourishing corals would gradually start to wither until I replaced my MH and flourescent bulbs. If you grow full time it's a damn good idea to replace all your bulbs yearly regardless of what type they are. Manufacturer specs on bulb life are inflated and too subjective to be of any real use.

    The real value in t-5's is the ability to mix many different spectrums of light - up to eight varieties - in a single fixture, which is a real plus in reefkeeping. I'm a noob grower but my understanding is that this isn't at all necessary when growing.
     
  3. Nice write-up. It should be noted that the inverse square law for light does not apply to lights with reflectors. Examples of 'exceptions' to the law are lasers and those big searchlights they have at Hollywood premiers and that were used to find enemy bombers during WWII.

    THE INVERSE-SQUARE LAW
     
  4. thanks guys and I really enjoyed that INVERSE SQUARE info that put a whole new layer on lighting for me.
     
  5. when u mean its better haveing clfs at a 45 degree angle do you mean like \ / or / \ ?
     
  6. bump, im not to sure what the op means by having the lights at a 45 degree angle
     
  7. OK I guess I need to clarify the 45 degree thing. what I mean is if you have one single plant whith a 1000 watt light ABOVE it you will find that it will not do as well as it would with two 400 watts just above it and off to the side a little. one foot strait above vs one foot off to a 45.

    now the CFLs are hanging like this /\ and lowered almost inbetween the plants but high enough to still light the tops
     
  8. yeah its hard to get a complete competitive edge on traditional hps but if you combine t5 and cfl you are going to get results . iam use n cfl right now but have spent so much $ on all of them i should have just bought a t5 n then filled in ewith cfl . witch am currently doing but backwards.
     
  9. JIGABOOJONES just made me thunk of a very important piece of info that I took forgranted and left out. the CFL industry is dominated by china products so when you purchase them make sure that they are SOLID STATE products the quality is a lot better and I will admit that I dont know what the hell SOLID state means but I do know that it makes a huge difference in bulb proformance. I hope all you guys keep the input flowing because it is certain at this point that CFLs are a big part of the future for most of us.
     
  10. I have a digital ballast and could run a MH for veg... but love my results with CFLs for a veg. With Cfls you get much bushier plants because your able to keep them inches off the tops and the sides.

    You can also start with only a few and keep adding as the plants require more light for optimal results. This keeps your power usage down as your not running 600w the entire veg... when they may only need 100 to start and then uping as you go. I run a 504w CFL rig during veg. I'm actually currently running it along with my 600w HPS in flower, till I bite the bullet and pick up another HPS for flower.

    CFLs will flower great also, but to cover my 4x4 space I would need to run about 1000w of CFL to get the results my 600w HPS does in flower. But with 2 plants I have pulled over 5z's with 504w of CFL.
     
  11. DAMN!! 5ozs, NewgrownNY you get a big fat gold star!! I havent flowered with em' (dedicated guerilla) But Im gonna try it when I get my spring babies out do you mix colors? I hear that 70% 2700 20% 6500 and 10% 5000 is a good flower mix but I would think that it would be hard to get the mix to all plants equally. how did you do it?
     
  12. I mix them up 75% 65K and 25% 27K in veg... and then flip that in flower. But I really just use them for veg now.. and fill in lighting with my HPS.

    Edit... I use a 6 bulb vanity light w/ y spliters and run 12x42w CFLs... I just mix them in here and there.. some get more some less but all works out in the end... or you could rotate them every now and then.
     
  13. was that 5z per plant ? i hope so . but its a pain for me with cfl right now because of all the sockets n fixtures it takes not to mention i had to veg all with mostly 27k bulbs but the plants are healthy n im just simply out of socket space . so i am ordering a t5 badboy as soon as the store reopens monday. my plants are still 12/12 since 12-22 so it sould get here in time to boost my babies . veging is much easier it seems to me . flowering is where i could never have enough info .
    as for the solid state i have never heard of that but have heard about production quality from other countries is an issue. i will have to check up on this . i mostly researched that subject with led lights. i am currently running a 45 watt led panel with my cfl . man the more i think of how much i have going on with all the misc.lighting it is way more efficiant to use a t5 for multipule plants. but one thing for sure is i am croping something. later fellas
     
  14. no it was a lil over 5 between the two
     
  15. n just to help with my math you had like 500 true watts not equivalents. either way good 4 you . i cant tell you how many posts ive read n kept up with till one day they post ahhhh light fell n killed everything or some fuck up to ruin everything . it took untill like a week ago to see people actualy harvest n tell the truth.
     

  16. where do you get ur bulbs form?
     
  17. 1000bulbs.com is where I got most of the 6500k

    target, homedepot forthe 2700k
     
  18. What can anyone tell me about LEDs? Thanks for all the helpful information. This is a great site!
     
  19. hempress (great name) As of right now all I'm sure of with LEDs is that most of them seem better suited for a flashlight than a grow light, however there are good ones out there and again SOLID STATE is what you are looking for. Also the fixtures have a million bulbs and some are 1 watt each others are 2 watt each so if you buy one I would look for the two watt bulbs to get more powerfull lights. They are VERY small and dont seem to cover a lot of space. a lot of people are mixing them with CFLs and seem to have good results. there are some LED grows posted on GC so do a little reasearch and youll get a lot better info than I can give. let us know what you find out.
     
  20. #20 lerner, Jan 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2010



    what watt are ur 65k's and 27k's?
     

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