******CAUTION****** If you cannot read lengthy paragraphs carefully, please do not post here. Also, this is all just opinion and speculation for the sole purpose to evoke thoughts beyond the norm. Please have some sort of openness. ______________________________________ The definition of creationism: the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution. Why does it imply that something "Divine" (or I guess sentient is a better way to describe it) created you? It is just as easy to say nothing created you. There are so many unknowns for this to be the only acceptable version of creationism. It really puts the concept in a box where as it should be a more open topic. Along this topic, I'd like to get some talking going about the concept of nothing. It would imply that there is not one single thing. Thing being an object. How can one describe nothing? There is never nothing in our perceived version of reality. If there is space, it taken up by something, right? Maybe things we aren't able to conceive yet due to our lack of comprehension of the unknown in some cases, but still something. I may be perceived as stupid for even bringing this topic up, but what are your thoughts?
creationism is acknowledging some sort of divine being. period. no way to simplify it. as to your "concept of nothing" the big bang theory covers that
Why does it have to though is what I'm asking. Look at the evidence we have before us. Next to nothing. We have what we perceive to be true (Which I'm not saying isn't true) with theories to back it up. Stuff that sounds good but can't be proven. Or the proof is a book that was written from human perception (and by humans) passed over the years to symbolize something that may or may not explain our perception of reality. It's just a concept, really. It is an idea based on next to zero physical proof that we accept as fact. It inhibits the sole aspect in creationism (being created) in its entirety. While there is no proof for the other possibilities, (That we can understand yet) the idea brings about a humble openness to what may or may not be true about existence, reality, time, etc. <//br /> (My personal opinion is that we probably have more evidence for aliens than for some super creature that made everything exist and focused only on making Earth prosperous in the universe.) To each their own however. I'm not saying to disbelieve. I'm just saying to keep an openness that you may be wrong because there is very little evidence. I believe I could be wrong too. There could be a possibility beyond that which we can comprehend, and it could be meaningless. As for nothing, the big bang theory assumes time and chronology to be something real. Time is a theory at this point. It is just a measurement from perception. The measurement of time, to be fully understood, delves deep into physics. And to sum it up, our perception of reality leaves us with one of two supporting evidences to believe in. 1. Our perception of reality is a three dimensional place where stuff occurs as time progresses 2. Our perception of reality is a four dimensional block where nothing happens. This is basically describing a multiplicity of events occurring in many different time-spaces but have been predetermined already. A time space would best be described as a small block in the larger block of reality where as the little block is a point in space where a different reality will occur. And the larger block will be the housing to all the other realities happening. I use the term "Reality" loosely by the way. This is all just a concept with little to no evidence as well. It is just a theory based on human perception. With that understood, what makes other realities (different than the aforementioned ones) more or less plausible given the same evidence? Our human perception. We were never able to experience anything beyond the scope we were given with very limited understanding, so it would be ignorant for any one person to dictate a reality that is more or less "Real" than the other one.
What you know for sure is that you exist, anything beyond that is out of your control..... Religion is something humans created because we simply can't accept that we don't know everything Same as aliens, The bible has such an open interpretation, given any person can take something away from it be it morals to live by or purpose to life , Me i took some good stories from it and thats it , but i do try to follow some of the commandments AKA not stealing But thats not because I must or have to , i don't do those things because I dont appreciate people stealing my shit or being shitty neighbors or whatever so i wont do it to other people
How do you know you truly exist? What proof do you have? For all anyone knows, existence may not really be what we are experiencing. This could be some sick sort of computer simulation you've been in your whole life. Just one of many possibilities. Of course I do not believe it, but why discredit it when there isn't evidence to prove or disprove it?
if I'm in some sort of sick computer stimulation then i would still exist otherwise i wouldn't be Then perhaps you'll say well how do you know I'm not And regardless of circumstances or labels or theories or even believes The truth is if their is even truth does it matter does anything matter , it sounds almost like true nihilism You keep thinking what you possibly are or what you are apart of , by the time you figure it or will never know , it might land up being too late
I am not a nihilist. I just explore realms of possibilities beyond what anyone cares to. True, you'd exist as much as a memory or any other fabrication of intangibility. But like a memory, when it's done, there is no proof of it having ever existed. A photo can bring back memories from your mind, but when you, and anyone who has memories within that photo, pass on, will the memory or you truly have existed? No one can be certain because no one knows what's on the other side. Existing assumes that you have an objective reality whereas that may not be the case. It's not hard to reason with. For every instance you say you exist, there are opposing forces beyond comprehension (at this point) that may (or may not) tell you otherwise. It's truly a guessing game and believing in something to which you don't fully understand can always leave you with end results in which you did not expect.
I already have a thread about the concept of nothing and infinity I can link you or I can rehash it here.
I think I actually posted on your infinity thread awhile ago. I don't remember a nothing thread though. I'd love to explore the topic more, so i'll check it out.
https://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1352159-Infinity,-Nothing,-Trinity-and-Metaphysics Maybe under another name because the thread has been inactive since before you joined.
Yeah, it wasn't this thread. I've been roaming around gc under a few different accounts. (i keep forgetting my passwords lol.) But i've been active for a few years. The thread in which we intertwined ideas was a thread on infinity. That sparked more topics within the thread. We discussed nothing and conceptualism as well. I'm going to make some coffee and read your thread and the posts in them. I'm sure I'll learn something new.
Only the first few pages is relevant, after that I think Mantikore and I were arguing about something (as usual).
I've been saying this for years, to mostly glazed over eyes. The fact that something may have created us does not automatically make them a god. It just makes them a more advanced biological architect or engineer. We have cloned sheep and can no doubt artificially create more and more stuff, including actual humans should the ethical barrier be removed. Does that make us god? Basic awareness of biological engineering suggests to me that it is perfectly feasible that we COULD have been created, subsequent evolution included, without the creator being divine whatsoever. To make a biological creator instantly god seems akin to bronze age humans witnessing someone building and driving a car and dropping to their knees and worshiping him as a god, because they see him operating a technology that is well beyond them. Based on what human biological work has produced so far, I see life creation as nothing more but a sufficiently developed biological technology. What happens after that, can have massive implications, but the creation of life =/= divinity in my book.
You highlight the problem with the term God, it's a useless term IMO. Too many variable definitions and distinctions and connotations, etc. It adds confusion and complexity instead of clarity to what is being communicated.
Like Carlin says, "Look around you. Does this look like the work of a Devine being? No. This looks like the work of a temp with a bad attitude." (I'm paraphrasing)
Depends on your definition of religion. Religion doesn't always have to center around a god.. it's a set of beliefs that deal with the nature of existence. In order for something you believe (such as life on Earth being created by an intelligent alien life form or godly being) to not be a belief, there needs to be solid evidence to support it.. enough to call it a fact. I know that probably just opened the door on a semantics debate about what are facts.. but I can say right now, I have no interest in that. Anyway.. there is no evidence we were created by anything other than natural, mindless processes. So if you toy with the idea and consider it, I'd say you're fine.. but if you truly believe we were created despite the complete lack of evidence, I'd say that you're following a religion at that point.
Tis true.. but when it comes to the beginning of life or the universe, there is either it all happened naturally or was created. If one truly believes it was created, it'd bring a belief system with it. If one believes there was a creator, whether it be gods or aliens, you have to take in who did it, why they did it, and how they did it. Along with whether or not they are observing you.. if they care about your actions in life.. a whole slew of beliefs that come together, a system of belief. If you believe it happened naturally.. you only need to figure out how. So it really depends on how much faith you put into it or if you just consider it a possibility. If I met someone and they said they believe aliens created life on Earth.. but won't even guess as to who or why.. just that it was aliens, then I'd say they didn't take their belief seriously in the first place. More like they were just following a crowd.