Nutrients...UGH

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by MostlyReputable, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Hey all, I recently posted a topic and had more help than i could ever ask for, so i like to give a quick thank you to the community here at GC,
    -Basically, Im going to be running str8 coir, with some perlite for a soilless grow, gonna be running about 8-10 plants in a 4x4 tent, under a 4ft 4tube t5 then switching to a 1000w super HPS for the rest of the veg+flower. Getting can fan 6in and an active air 6in(to save money, heard they are good, thoughts?) to run the hood and all that, blah blah.
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    -Literally every day my mind gets changed on what nutrients im getting. I started off thinking i was getting the FLoraNova Line which is a simple 2 step...But now since ive been reading more im thinking im going to need something with more nutrient control. Ive looked at the canna coco line, but haven't been really able to read many reviews on it.
    --->This is what ive settled on today and i think i might have a winner. FLoraNova Grow (7-4-10) for the VEG......FloraBloom(0-5-4) and FloraMicro(5-0-1) for FLOWERING and i will slowly taper the FloraMicro in the nutrient mix until its at 0.......I will be supplementing with Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus (2-0-0) and also Dyna-grow Pro tekt(0-0-3) which is a Silica Supplement during both stages. I read that its better to taper off Nitrogen while flowering for various reasons, and also good to keep the potassium low when using coir too.
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    ADDITIONAL INFO:
    -Im not really sure how much to use of the Cal-Mag, but from what ive read its a must have if using Coir as a medium, and suggestions on times to use it, or to watch out for necessity of use?
    -Same with the Silica supplement, but im thinking that should be used the entire grow.
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    -Thank you, and i do appreciate any help, or info from your experiences your willing to share.

     
  2. Go organic. So simple.
     
  3. I know about going organic and i have good recipes for it, but im not doing that until i have a little more experience with plant needs and such. I didn't ask about organics, but thanks for your input i guess.
     
  4. Sensi have a coco specific nute I'm highly thinking of trying. On paper it looks solid
     
  5. Then what was your question? Maybe I missed it.
     
  6. --->This is what ive settled on today and i think i might have a winner. FLoraNova Grow (7-4-10) for the VEG......FloraBloom(0-5-4) and FloraMicro(5-0-1) for FLOWERING and i will slowly taper the FloraMicro in the nutrient mix until its at 0.......I will be supplementing with Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus (2-0-0) and also Dyna-grow Pro tekt(0-0-3) which is a Silica Supplement during both stages
    Will that be a suitable combo? As i stated i know the N it supposed to taper off in late flowering, and i do want to be careful because i am using coco.
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    A whole other problem im thinking about is im going to assume my water is hard, somewhere around 250ppm. I am going to be getting pH adjustors, but how do i correct the "hardness" of the water? If it doesn't have bad consequences ill leave it, and just fix the pH if its still useable. Since im going to be using coco, i am wondering what the correct pH of the nute water used for watering is supposed to be. I read that the pH of the soil of the plants is supposed to be 7.0, but maybe that's for regular soil, not coco.
     
  7. #7 Joker1121, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
    I'm a little concerned about eight-10 plants under 1000W HID in a 4X4. Hope you're doing sea of green. There's a whole sub forum on growing in coco. It's called research when you read the information there.
     
  8. #8 jay719, Jan 6, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2016
    Cal mag isn't always a must, it depends on nutrient choice, water source and needs of the individual strain.
    I got samples from House and Garden Cocos, Gh Cocotek grow and bloom, as wel as the botanicare cns17 line. I've also grown with just flora micro and flora bloom using the h3ad formula.
    For lowest price and decent quality the h3ad formula is one of the best bargains.
    House and Gardens Cocos worked great. Good in veg and nice bulky flowers. No real complaints.
    Cns17 grow, bloom, ripe, and hydroplex are working great. One complaint about this line are that the price per gallon looks low, but when you actually look at the ml per gallon of nutrients used it is just as expensive as others if not more so. It is also very "chalky" and if not mixed well it is a pain to clean out a reservoir. As a benefit however, it always put my ph right at 5.8 with no ph down.
    The new GH Cocotek line I found to be all around disappointment. The plants never seemed "right", you have to buy two bottles for grow, and two for bloom ( opposed to the same two base bottles with h&g and the h3ad), and it offers no real price advantage like the flora line even though I garauntee it is basically the same thing.
     
  9. #9 MostlyReputable, Jan 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
    Thank you for the info jay, definitely going to look some more into cns17 line. I agree, it looked more expensive, but from what I could tell more nutrients are about the same price because of concentrations and such.
    --I went with the regular flora line, and also purchased the floraNova line, I can do the head formula if need be. I was going to just run the og formulas how they were supposed to be but ive read people getting problems with nova with coco and the flora with coco. Also, was told to lower N during late flowering which you cant really do with a set formula, but the 3 part I guess you can.
    ---Joker, why do you say you're concerned? FYI I was planning on SCrog
     
  10. I use Cutting Edge Solutions in coco and have really good results. I use their full six part system. Their basic feed schedule is pretty solid and easy to use, and with the six part system, you have an independent knob for each of your major nutrients. Signs of Ca deficiency? Bump up your Plant Amp. P deficiency, bump your Bloom, and so on. It gives you more discreet control of each nutrient than blended ferts do. Not critical, but nice. For example, most lines have a blended CalMag product, but you wont need as much of that Ca in the late cycle, while you will still want to keep pushing Mg. CES allows you to control for that. CES is all I've run, besides a pass at an organic run, which is NOT as simple as the orgo-fans would have you believe, but I have never had issues with mixing or the chalkiness Jay mentioned.
    With regards to the number of plants you are planning for, 8-10 in a 4x4 will likely be too much for SCROG. If you were running SOG, then maybe. Rough guideline is 1 square foot per plant for stand-alone grows, and for SCROG, the whole point is to grow more horizontal than vertical. With that many plants in a 4x4, you just wont have room to go horizontal. I've got a 4x4 tent with one experimental plant in a 10 gal pot which fills about 60-70% of my screen. With proper training, two plants should pull off SCROG in this space. Four plants would fill your screen quicker and have you into flower sooner, but I wouldn't advise more than that.
     
  11. #11 MostlyReputable, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2016


    Didn't see the reply there.
    - I ended up doing with the flora 3 part series for starters. But I am going to look into what you've suggested. I guess my estimations per plant count were off, as I was hoping to get a decent yield off a 4x4 space, but with 4 plants it doesn't seem likely. Got me thinking maybe for a first real attempt SCRog might not be the best idea for what I want to achieve. Really, looking at at least topping my plants, and then I guess letting them grow from there. I was looking at all the different kinds of training, LST and HST, and was thinking some LST would be good for now, with the exception of the topping.
    -I want to have a decent number of plants, and going by what you said 1 plant per sq ft. I could fit 16 small plants in the space, more than likely that would be too many as I want to grow some mature decent sized plants, that's where I got the 8-10 figure. So, if I wasn't SCROGing and was just topping and tying down would you recommend 8-10?
    EDIT: Can you link me to the specific nutes you are talking about? I want to double check that im looking at the right thing.
     
  12. I use the floranova line, and nothing else.

    Ive had no deficiency doing so in promix/coir blend.
    ... im starting it now in a true soiless mix.

    I had well water with natural CalMag at 300ppm in the tap, so your results might vary.

    As far as correcting hardness... softening water is worse because all you do is replace the calcium (good) with sodium (bad). Your ppm will drop, but id take quality hard water over bad soft water.

    my cheap LED grow. 168 watts at the wall:
    https://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1393482-My-"Everything-Wrong"-grow...-probably-no-harvest-:-/
     


  13. I thought about what you're doing a bit more. If you keep your pots small, like less than five gallons or so, you could run all those plants. You're pretty much running SOG whether you want to or not. You could always lay out the 8-10 pots you plan on using for final planting and look at how much space you've got. The plants like to get bushy on their own, and performing LST will push them over the rim, guaranteed. I overstocked a tent once on one of my first grows, take a look:


    You start with these little girls:
    IMG_0227.JPG
    Then you get this:
    IMG_0363.JPG
    ...which is manageable, but you have a hard time getting to the pots in back for pruning and training, airflow suffers, less light to the bottoms, blah, blah. Again, these are from one of my first grows, might even be THE first, and I hadn't really applied any training and such, and look at how full that 4x4 is. This tent started with 8 KC45 autos, at least two of them hermied so I pulled them and threw in a couple LSDs, the shorter guys in the center.
    All that being said, you can pull it off:
    IMG_0481.JPG
    It can just be a hassle with that many plants. Just my opinion. I'll never run more than four in that tent again. You can get the same yield from fewer plants through good training to make the most efficient use of the light you provide.
    For Cutting Edge Solutions' website, just add dot com to their name. Not sure if I'm allowed to link directly. Their three part base includes their Micro, Grow, and Bloom, and the three additives to round out the six part system are Uncle John's Blend, Plant Amp, and Mag Amp. I use tap water, and once I got my pH dialed in, its been a cakewalk feeding with this system. I don't even check pH but once or twice a year to make sure there's no seasonal drift in the water supply. EZ-PZ. Just look at the size of that nug and the veg growth on a noob grow.







     
  14. I have a 4x4. I've only grown twice in it. The first time I did 9 plants but took one out during the stretch because I ran out of room. That was with 4 weeks veg in 3.9 gallon pots. I got 3/4 pound. Second grow I went to 6 plants 6 week veg same 3.9gallon pots and got 1.25lb. I'm doing 6 again this time but considering going to 4 plants in 5 gallon pots and then just veg a week or 2 longer. I'm no pro but it seemed my buds got way bigger with more space and it was also a lot easier and less stressful to manage. It hurt my heart chucking a plant because of space issues.


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  15. [​IMG]

    That's 6 plants in a 4x4


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  16. #16 MostlyReputable, Feb 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2016
    I have a problem guys. I germinated some extra seeds because some of them looked immature, and ALL OF THEM GERMINATED(except 1)
    -I now have 15 seedlings.
    fuck my life
    -I ended up getting the flora line, I assume itll be satisfactory, plus there was a deal on it.
    -I am planning on scrOG in my 4x4, don't really know what else to do that's simple enough, even though last time I topped my 4 plants a couple times.... I was thinking about attempting FIMing, but ehh
    --WHat training method do you prefer?
    --Not sre if I asked this, but when do I add nutes first? I am using RO with coco, I have the cal mag for buffering and silica to add as well. (have heard on the 3rd set of leaves..does that mean the 3rd set of TRUE leaves,like fan leaves?)
     
  17. I'm going to try one in a 2x2x5. How much odor do you think that would put off? Temps staying around high 60's low 70's.
     
  18. Google: "How to SCROG", the first result should be LBH's SCROG tutorial. Read that and the other stuff on that site. Lays out how to train a seedling for SCROG.
    As far as feeding, shouldn't NEED it for a couple weeks. The cotyledon is the little round leaves you first see and they feed the plant for about two weeks until roots form, like the yolk of an egg. I give mine a dilute Clonex feed when I transfer my rockwool starter cube into coco at week two. I'm honestly not familiar with your nutes, but you could maybe do a ten percent dilute mix of your line's veg solution.
    When referring to leaves, I believe most people are indeed referring to true leaves. Two weeks, three leaves are roughly equivalent.
     
  19. #19 Urkle The Purple, Feb 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2016
    Age old fish and seaweed, cal-mag, and age old bloom. all of your macros and micros in three products, I also brew a 0-12-0 phos seabird guano tea for inbetweens when they are full on nitrogen,with ROOT by rx green solution. containes 8 different species of microbes, yucca and humic acids, soluble seaweed extract, microbe food, and DE
     
  20. gotcha, when I go organic I will take that into consideration.
    -But for some reason I feel like the seedlings are stuck, stalled out. a couple of them have visible growth, others, seem to be stagnant,
    I really don't want to start nutes but I think I might have too; they don't even have their first set of leaves yet. And one of the seedlings is turning yellow and looks like burned leaves on top, which doesn't make sense because its farther down from the light than most.
     

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