Just leave it then. If you're not willing to argue your side, then I don't really want to just PM that shit.
I am willing, just as I have before. I just can't have 3 or 4 different debates and actually get some points across. Then you can post what we debated if you want. If not then no big deal but that's just the best way.
Hitler used religious language for political gain. Do you really think he worshipped a Jew (Jesus) tjat taught to love God and your neighbor as yourself? He called christianity one of the great "scourges" in history and wanted the german people to be " the only people immunized against this disease". He actually justified the holocaust by citing evolution. Mein Kampf- "If nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such cases all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being, may this be rendered futile." In any case, you don't judge a religion or philosophy by its abuse. Whether he was an atheist or a Christian, neither side would promote what hitler did.
No? What about subjective moral standards? Religions are not the sole proprietor of "moral standard". They are equally derived from cultural and philosophical beliefs/understandings. All intertwined, and yet mutually exclusive... You may not judge ideologies by their abuses, but I most certainly do... It doesn't seem as if you read the article that I provided. Hitler was a self-proclaimed Christian. In the future, you might want to consider providing the source of the information that you copy/paste to substantiate your argument/debate. When it's reviewable, it's much more credible. Now... was Hitler REALLY a "Christian", or was he a closet "atheist"? The point is moot, IMO. He USED Christian religious propaganda to convince the populace that what he was doing was "moral" and "just". And it worked, 'cause they were all "Christians". "Christians" enabled the atrocities committed by Hitler... Maybe they were just scert'. They still let it happen. This is the poison of FUNDAMENTALIST religious belief, regardless of which belief system one chooses (or is forced) to believe in. Apologies for rant. This has nothing to do with evolution, or us "God dishonoring", "lost sinners" (from the thread title)... I'm agnostic, by the way... [SUB][/SUB]<sup></sup><del></del>
Do you only believe in subjective moral standards? And why were they "atrocities" if there is no objective moral standard? That was the Nazis opinion and their subjective standard.
It's a wonder why no one is interested in debating/conversing with you... Are there actual objective moral standards? Certainly not within the writings of religious doctrine. The faithful are consistently indoctrinated as to how they should behave, and live their lives. What's "non-biased" (objective) about that? Perhaps you subscribe to the Nazi "subjective standard"?
There are certainly no objective morals in the atheistic view. Evolution doesn't evolve morals, intentionality, philosophy(the basis of all science), etc. If there aren't any, then everything is subjective. Including our laws in our government. Objective morals are not biased because it comes from a creator and not from a creation (man). There are basic morals that are 'written on our hearts' and you don't need the bible to tell you those, even if it is consistent with the bible. (Stealing, lying, etc.). Now back to my question, do you only believe there are subjective moral standards?
Once again, objective morals would not come from a biased form of religious belief. The whole crux of objectivity stems from the concept of non-bias... Faith-based doctrines are inherently biased. I don't need any "bible" to realize the fact that the "Golden Rule" is a good idea. What's more, it's not an original idea. The idea of "do unto others..." is very old, and much more antiquated than the belief system that spawned the hero myth of Jesus Christ. Or "Gods",for that matter. It's all mythology... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule Put up or shut up. I'm not going to waste any more of my time unless you substantiate your premise with something REAL...
Didnt I just say you didnt need the bible to know basic morals? (Even though I believe that the bible is true and that objective morality exists). You dont need the bible to know morality I just said that. So I agree. Why is the golden rule good? Of whose standard? I want substantial scientific evidence...something REAL... Also again, do you believe in only subjective morals?
Clearly the Bible does not espouse objective morality, in fact it is replete with the opposite. The Bible IS, however, an important historical document that does contain some truth and morality. When you say you believe the Bible is true, I take it to mean that you believe everything it says is true? Upon that assumption, I wager that I could point out quite a few things in the Bible that are contradictory, both morally and textually. Trust me I have been in your shoes and spent inordinant time studying, particularly apologetics and philosophy of the Bible. Here is my loving suggestion - Don't inhale the Bible as the breath of Truth, but rather look at who Jesus was and aspire to that. As far as morality, that is all the Bible really has to offer. Was Jesus (Yeshua) the Son of God? Maybe maybe not. Was Yeshua a powerful and moral figure? Certainly! You see, whether or not he was the actual Son of God is less relevant than whether or not he was a human being who gave his life to help others, doing the most good, and what could be more loving than that? He did what a loving God would want him to do, and would want all of us to do. That's my opinion, and I say all of that with love and good intentions my friend.
where are these clear rules? you say god wrote these rules? dont make me laugh. if there was any physical evidence beyond "god's face appeared to me on a slice pizza" crap then religeon would be compulsory and universal. daft twat Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk