It matters when the society in question is the one claiming that X, Y, and Z miracles happened. When extraordinary claims start being made, then we should investigate who is making them. One does not have to have supreme intelligence to write about what they witness, just like one does not have to believe everything others claim to have witnessed. Especially when the claim is made by mostly illiterate people, 2000 years ago. Nothing that is "historically congruent with other writers of that time" even remotely proves the divinity of Christ or his miracles. You may be drawing too much importance out of New Testament writers "writing what they see". They don't impress me very much as a people, so when they start making claims about miracles and how the universe works, I tend to take it with a giant grain of salt. Or I should say, I would take it with a grain of salt, were the planet I spawned on not drenched in religion and depending on area of the world my life wouldn't depend on dodging it well enough.
Almost no mention of Jesus anywhere other than the Bible? Really? Does Josephus count? Within 150 years of Jesus' life there are 10 known non christian writers who mention him. Tiberius Caesar had a total of something like 9.. Ok well if thats your case against the reliabilty of the New Testament writers then fine. I just dont see a reason they had to lie.
The point I believe he was trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong) is that given the extraordinary nature of JC and his existence's claims, one would expect more and more credible sources to mention something extraordinary about him. Instead religions constantly find themselves having to enforce the law of belief whenever infidels decide the BS isn't worth following and never has been. So not only is he (as the divine) not substantiated in historical writing, the dogmatic powers that be will punish you if you choose to denounce. If JC existed as a regular man, he may have literally just been a cool dude the Romans decided to off for being too "chill". The religious mind still has all its work ahead of it, proving his divinity or magical powers. Along that goes the whole "father son & ghost" trinity talk, and the general "god created all" talk. Should he have existed and was cool but we find out that the magical powers and heaven thing was just bs, I wonder how many people would still really care about ole JC. How strong will the attachment to dogma be, without the promise of pie in the sky
That passage from Josephus has been shown conclusively to be a forgery. At minimum it was edited. But even were it historical, it dates from well after the supposed death of Jesus. If you research these alleged non Christian references to Jesus you will find that they are NOT accepted as factual by most historians. Very similar to the evolution "debate" creationists try to make it look like there is this huge division among the experts when in reality those who don't accept evolution are on the fringe and make up a fraction of a percent of the whole scientific community. There is no "debate" amongst scientists. In the same way there are very very few historians who consider the Bible an accurate historical record. The reality based evidence and confirmed historical accounts just don't line up with the Bible. Just because the Bible mentions some people who really did exist in history doesn't mean it's all true. Just like Harry Potter takes place in England, which is a factually real place, that fact doesn't make the rest of the book factually true.
http://ffrf.org/outreach/item/18412-debunking-the-historical-jesus You might appreciate this. I doubt those on the other side of the table will want to read it but maybe.
It's a bit of a read, but you might find this article by R. G. Price interesting. It expounds upon several of the points brought up in the link you provided, in great detail. Especially concerning the "historical" proof often times utilized by apologists. http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_m...
Curious.. Why be an atheist ? In a way its just like another religion you are labeling yourself and limiting yourself to what you believe. Im not religious or atheist. I just am who i am and no worldly ideas and labels can change that. Why not choose to be free and be your own self?
Atheism is not limiting to a belief. It's specifically the LACK of belief in extraordinary claims that provide no evidence to support them. I believe in things that have evidence.
In a way its the same thing as belief its still a system like religion is a system. If you were a "master of the universe" like your title says you would know. You don't need text or paper work telling us about life, We need to live life to find the real evidence. Letting other people confirm your questions will never give you a real answer. They say there is 7 billion people on this planet? So they say but have you counted each and everyone ? They say people have only been around for a few thousands years but who had a time machine to go back and really see if this is true?
My "Master of the Universe" title is in reference to HeMan. Not scientific knowledge. Lol. And I don't have to meet every chinaman to know that China is full of them. Do you really believe the world population is limited to people you have met? There is all kinds of evidence for things that don't rely on visual cues. Are you gonna believe someone who tells you rat poison is deadly or do you have to experience that yourself. I personally will rely on the CONFIRMED experiences of others.
I could also say... Would you believe someone who tells you urine is bad for you to drink or do you have to experience that yourself? Because based on Dr Nakao's work and many other holistic research Dr and Scientists the urine therapy is that you are curing your self since you are returning your own Stem-cells back to your body. Scientists are now utilizing these stem cells for the reproduction of new body parts..9 months ago. Many cases where people cured their eyesight, cancers and all sorts of problems you name it. Now there Could be 1000 people having CONFIRMED experiences but they could all be placebo in effect then what?
Seems there is a range of thoughts associated with being an atheist. Anywhere from the guy who just doesn't even think about it at all and just lives his life, all the way to the people who belong to atheist churches (surprisingly, they do exist) where members gather just to socialize (NOT to worship any deities). No matter where a person falls in that range, the one philosophy that is persistent is a lack of belief in any god(s). I strongly disagree with people who say atheism is a part of any sort of "belief system". That is complete bullshit in my case. It makes about as much sense as saying that my nonbelief in a unicorn sitting next to me is part of a belief system. A person doesn't need a fucking belief system to not believe in something.
I find myself often thinking about death. It's almost incomprehensible to imagine no longer existing. About the only way I can wrap my head around it is to think about what it was like before I was born. I'm guessing death will pretty much be like that. As Louis C.K. said, "A lot of things happen after you die. But none of it includes you."
I can't believe how difficult of a concept this is to convey to people. Not only do they subscribe to a belief system, but they will not accept that you reject them all. To the point of saying that rejecting them all is a belief system of itself.
I know exactly what you mean. They think not believing requires an active thought process. It's passive, folks.
i like to use the "is dis-honesty a form of honesty?" and of course they'll say no, then you can hit em with the well disbelief isn't belief
Islam is based on one man's ego. A man who, when evicted from Mecca, turned to thieving and killing civilians He gained followers early on by promising riches. Which he gained by picking fights with tribes and enslaving their people In fact the Prophet lost a very important battle because the archers who were strategically positioned left their posts to rob the enemy's camp site. Which is funny because the Quran boasts about how God sent down angles to aid the Muslims in other big fights. it has always been about gaining riches. the quran describes the belongings on non-muslims as god's gift to muslims Islam is extremely patriarchal. It never speaks to women in fact. All the rules set for women are spoken to men who in turn have to make their wives follow the rules. In fact there's a verse tht welcomes men to paradise and it continues with "...and bring your wives". does tht imply tht an unmarried woman can't get into heaven? it describes women as dumb and weak. which was the norm everywhere back then. but modern women have thoroughly disproven this and don't get me started on the Quran. the lack of consistency, the constant repetition of the same message verse, after verse, after verse. the scare tactics used against its followers. you'd think an omnipotent god could convince his followers in a better way than "if you dont believe me ill torture you for all eternity" the quran answers alot of the criticism aimed at it by non-muslims in the most laughable ways. "they dont believe cause theyre dumb", "they wont listen cause theyre deaf" etc. you may already know tht the prophet was illiterate so he had others write down his messages. what u may not know is tht some of his scribes made up their own verses. at one point a goat ate several pages of the quran. and it's plagued by contradictions, and scientifically incorrect verses and the list goes on Islam allows you to have 4 wives and as many slaves as u want, and the quran tells u time and time again tht u can have sex with your slaves. is this god's decree? or every man's wet dream?? of course this rule does not apply to the Prophet as he's allowed to have as many wives as he wants, im not shitting u "god" actually wasted space in his holy book to allow his golden boy to do whatever he wants God also made Muslims pay a special tax to the Prophet, also in the quran my advise to u is - be a critical minded, objective individual. don't believe in what ppl believed back when. you've forgotten more facts than anyone living 200 yrs and back had ever learned do you believe the sun orbits earth? no? then religion is beneath you