Why are we not talking about vaccines?

Discussion in 'Fitness, Health & Nutrition' started by Knitting Mama, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. #21 BlazedGlory, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
     
    I question if there ever actually was a rise in the incidence of autism, I think it might just be the progress we've made recently in understanding the disease and our ability to diagnose it leads to more reported cases. We've also expanded the definition of autism to include a wide spectrum of disorders.
     
    Parents also might swear up and down that their kid didn't have autism before vaccination, but that is just a matter of timing, children don't begin to show discernible signs of autism until around the time they're scheduled to get certain shots. To parents it may falsely seem that their kid developed symptoms because of the shot.
     
    Research linking vaccines and autism has been thoroughly discredited.
     
  2.  
    No, there is no move to make vaccinations mandatory.  These requirements are for attending public schools.  But there are options for you if you just don't want to vaccinate your child.  You may send them to private school, or homeschool them, or do online public school.  I am ALL FOR doing away with personal objection exemptions for public school children, including religious exemptions.  We have limits on freedom of religion.
     
    What vaccines do you consider unnecessary, and why?
     
    What is your basis for thinking that spreading the vaccines out more is better?  Because there would have to be a significant benefit to negate the benefits of the current schedule (which is, fewer appointments = more compliance, as in kids actually get the vaccines.)
     
  3. So base our laws on baseless fear anand paranoia?

    -yuri
     
  4. Amen.
     
    I believe there is actually an increase in autism, and they haven't figured out why yet, but it's not as much as the stats would lead us to believe, because of better understanding and diagnosis.  And they HAVE definitively ruled out vaccines as a cause.
     
    However, could we please not call autism a disease?  It lends credence to the idea that somehow it's better to have a dead kid than my kid.  My kid is awesome, thank you very much.  And I wouldn't change him for the world.  (Well, I'd rather he clean his room more, but that's a function of him being a teenage boy, not his autism.)  Neurodiversity FTW.
     
  5. #25 Buffalo Beano, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
    folks are concerned about vaccines because of the research and evidence that they can be harmful. I wouldn't call that baseless fear and paranoia.

    You make it sound like making vaccines better for you is a bad thing.
     
  6. #26 Mahakali 420, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
    Mainly cause I am not a biologist, chemist, doctor, vaccinologist, or any type of scientist or PHd at all. For me to have an opinion on this topic would only degrade the discourse on it and the pool of information. I think due to confirmation bias many skeptics and fringe types will trust any anti-vaccine literature they read, but you can not deny that people no longer die from small pox, polio, measles, and a myriad of other diseases. The 100s of thousands of lives saved by vaccines are undeniable, while the potential affect of vaccine induced autism is far less significant, and highly debatable.
     
    Check this out.
     
    [​IMG]
    Made using data collected in 2007 and published in the Journal of the American Medical Association
     
  7.  
     
    It's not like that's purposefully not being done :poke: 
     
  8.  
    What research and evidence?  The instance of genuine lasting damage from genuine adverse reactions is quite quite small.
     
    And research is always being done on how to makes vaccines better.
     
  9. #29 BlazedGlory, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
     
    I've read that serious adverse reactions to vaccination is somewhere in like 1 in 1,00,000. And yeah, there is really no solid research indicating vaccines cause serious illness such as autism.
     
    If you think about the autism thing, it seems absurd that a vaccination could cause a neurological disorder like that. People point to "toxins" such as formaldehyde, but fail to realize that formaldehyde is produced by your cells every day in quantities far larger than the tiny amount found in a vaccine.
     
    Some people did have an allergic reaction to the organo-mercury compounds in some vaccines, but despite the lack of research indicating this was harmful on a large scale, they still removed these mercury compounds from certain childhood vaccines just to be safe.
     
  10. #30 yurigadaisukida, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
    exactly. Research is always being done on how to make them better.

    Fear and paranoia harm this process.

    Its kinda like how anti science people made stem cells illegal because they "encouraged abortion" and.ultinatly hurt society as a whole by delaying medical science that could save countless lives by decades

    Funny how the anti vaccine anti gmo crowd iisn't anti stem cell.

    Its so weird. Its like they watch TV and say "oh this is how liberals/conservatives should think, therefore I will think this way"

    I swear to God these things follow party lines.

    Its extremely rare to see an anti gmo conservative or an anti stem cell liberal

    -yuri
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11.  
    But yet, anti-vaccine quackery is found on both sides of the political spectrum.
     
  12. the serious side effects may be small but they are present. You take that risk as you would with any pharmaceutical.

    There is research and evidence to show neurological damage caused by vaccines, and I'm not referring to autism specifically. It's listed by the manufacturer as a known side effect. I don't know why that's questioned if it comes straight from the horse's mouth.

    And Mercury is still present in some vaccines by the way.
     
  13. you are right. I think as a whole we have too much anti science on both sides
    -yuri
     
  14.  
    care to provide one link?
     
    and, again, wrong type (and dose) of mercury to be concerned about. 
     
  15. #35 Buffalo Beano, Feb 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2015
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm]
    Rather than hunt down pamphlets for each manufacturer here's a link to the CDC. Just scrolling through you'll see a few with brain damage, neurological disorders and so on.

    http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Whooping-Cough.aspx

    "Most pediatric neurologists acknowledge that vaccination, including use of vaccines for smallpox, rabies, influenza, mumps, measles, tetanus, polio and pertussis, can and does occasionally cause neurological complications that can lead to permanent brain dysfunction."
     
  16.  
     
    At the end of the day though, do you think the benefits outweigh the (from the site) 1 in a million chance of severe side effects like that? 
     
  17. #37 Buffalo Beano, Feb 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2015
    That's for everybody to decide for themselves.

    Would it make me take caution before giving it to an infant? Absolutely. Especially if there's a 1:1 million chance of catching whatever the ailment is or if the vaccine isn't even needed.
     
  18.  
    But the risk to the unvaccinated is only so low because people who can get the vaccine actually do so. What vaccines aren't needed?
     
  19. I realize there's such a thing as herd immunity. And while I also realize vaccines are an achievement of science, vaccines are not the sole reason for the decline in outbreaks. Things like nutrition and hygiene also played a big part in that.

    Some vaccines we could possibly do without and this is, of course, if these vaccines could even be separated.

    Diphtheria
    Tetanus
    Hep b
    Chicken pox
    Flu

    I understand vaccines are needed but to what extent? Why does an infant need a tetanus vaccine?

    And the flu shot? I mean the CDC may as well be throwing darts to figure out what strain. The majority of the time when you have flu-like symptoms, it's not even the flu.
     
  20. #40 *guest, Feb 10, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
     
     
    Regarding diphtheria/tetanus, CDC says "One dose of Tdap is routinely given at age 11 or 12." 
     
    Given that I've both been and known pre-teens I'm totally down with vaccinating against tetanus at that age. God only knows how many cuts I got from rusty shit while being an 11 year old kid. :p
     
     
    I do agree the flu shot isn't totally necessary for most of the population.. but I think it's a very good idea for kids, people who work with kids or in health care, elderly people, or those with compromised immune systems. Besides that, meh. I've never gotten a flu shot (as an adult anyway, I don't know if my parents had me get one when I was a kid). I got the flu this year, it sucked a giant dick but :confused_2:
     
    Probably won't get it next year or the year after.. but maybe when I'm old and frail I'll hit that shit up :smoking:
     

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