"Flushing" your plants before harvest?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Sizlunt, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. I have a friend of mine who is big time into the bottled nutes stuff. He was telling me that for two to three weeks before harvest you need to basically overwater your plants to wash all the nutrients out of them otherwise the buds will taste bad.

    This sounds like BS to my naturally skeptical mind, and I've never heard of anyone doing that...

    So... has anyone heard of doing that?
     
  2. Your naturally skeptical mind has served you well. From my research (mostly from the experts here in the organics section plus a couple of books) flushing falls under the "stoner science" category. Also known as a myth.....or pure hogwash. It's not necessary.
     
  3. Ya it seems quite silly. He was telling me that they sell bottles of stuff in the grow shop that flush your plants out for you.
     
  4. Siz......

    Plants take up water and nutrients in the form of mineral ions. They convert these minerals to sugars which are translocated throughout the plant and back out into the soil through root exudates. These sugars are food for microbes which perpetuate a cycle of the plant feeding itself.

    It is possible to flush mineral ions from your potting soil, but to flush these minerals from the plant tissue just ain't going to happen. You've heard us talking of a water only soil mix? Several of our members run their grow from start to finish and rely solely on the amendments in their soil to feed the plant from start to finish.

    Aside from a microbe rich ACT, that is the extent of what is fed to the plant. In the hydro world, flushing is just withholding nutrient solutions for the last 2-3 weeks. For years to come, the chemical folks will argue with the organic folks about "flushing". A read through "Botany for Dummies" is a good start to understanding just how plants operate and will clear up a lot of the confusion.

    Chunk
     
  5. Ya of course it's silly.
     
  6. This is true. But most of the time it's marketing to push products onto stoners who don't know better. (Like me! Lol) The model goes like this: Create an imaginary "problem", then create an imaginary "solution" to fix the imaginary "problem".....for $20 per bottle. Genius, ain't it?
     
  7. And whatever Chunk tells you.....listen closely. He and Jerry were the two that taught me the correct answer to this myth.
     

  8. You'd be surprised from the question lol, but I actually have a biology degree and most of my training used to be in botany, although now I do large scale ecology work... It's been a while since I was in any of those classes, so I started to doubt myself a bit because my buddy was so adamant that you have to do this lol. Plants in the ground in soil too. I wonder how much money he's spent on various potions.
     
  9. Siz, organic gardening is an "Outhouse Ideology". You just put shit in and flushing isnt an option. Never even thought about. Ever.

    VOO
     
  10. Sizlunt, welcome to the Organics forum.

    This myth has been deep rooted into stoner gardeners for SO LONG - I guarantee your buddy (and no offense to him, please - its 99.9% of marijuana gardeners out there that think they have to do this) will argue with you, telling you that you just don't know what you're talking about - guaranteed.

    It's become so deep rooted that, as the other guys have said, the fertilizer companies did in fact even start selling "Flushing Agents"; hell of a way to make a buck, eh?

    It's too bad. There's so much bad info floating around out there, especially on the Internet stoner marijuana growing forums like this one (our little organics corner is just that - a little corner *lol*) that one person says something, somebody else passes it on, and the next thing you know everybody is feeding their plants Twinkies and Cupcakes to make their buds sweeter.

    I know - been there done that. (not the Twinkies lol)

    Again - welcome.

    J
     
  11. This forum is great, I wish I'd found it before I started this year's crop. The last time I grew was about 10 years ago, indoor. The funny thing was I did basically organically then as far as soils go, but I supplemented things with a mild fertilizer. This year, I did an outdoor grow, plants in ground. I didn't bother to have my soil analyzed and just amended it with perlite and peat moss, planning to use fertilizers as needed. What a fricken nightmare. Aside from spider mites, it turns out that my soil is extremely silty, meaning that it compacts to the consistency of concrete after watering. Obviously not great for aeration. I'm going to get a decent yield, but it has been way more work than it needed to be, and it's going to be far smaller than it could have been.

    I've since done some experimentation with soil amendment and have a pretty good mix down, although it turns out I only have like 15% or less native soil left in the mix.

    After heading up to another friend's house (posts here as Guerrillanugget) and seeing his organic results, I am never bothering with bottled nutes again. I'm not one of these people that buys all kinds of crap from the grow store, but I used fertilizers out of habit I suppose. Never again.
     
  12. It's basically washing your feet to clean out your stomach...
     
  13. #13 poppybgood, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2012
    I did it for years, even using soilless mix and organic nutrient teas. Horhay said do it so I did it. Even went so far as feeding them apple juice the last few weeks to sweeten up those buds. Yikes!!

    Edit: Does anyone here besides me remember those High Times articles from the 80's? I wonder if some of those guys look back and think, "did we really write that crap?". LMAO!! To go as far as giving detailed instructions on mixing your juice water to achieve a desired taste proves the dope was really good back then as well.
     
  14. #14 Sizlunt, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2012

    LOL! My friend and I were just talking about this last night. He was telling me to add Martinelli's cider to it, extolling the benefits because of how the fizzy bubbles will add oxygen to the roots. I said, umm man the bubbles in sparkling cider are carbon dioxide...

    It does bring up an interesting idea though. When you guy buy carnations in the store, if you see those varieties that have the red or blue tinged blossoms... that is caused by placing the cut flower into a dye/water mixture. The dye is transported to the blossoms (if you don't believe me, you can see for yourself that this works by buying some carnations and doing it yourself).

    What I've been mulling in the back of my mind is whether or not treating a bud in a similar manner would have a similar result, except instead of using dyes, use raspberry or strawberry puree mixed with water. Maybe blackberry juice. Not to go for flavor or fragrance, but color. I'm considering trying this with a bud this year as part of the curing process. For this bud, while it's in the humidor, I'd stick the stem in a solution and see if it works.

    Thoughts?
     
  15. Eh, I'm not sure man. I know when I was still roaming through magazines I recall seeing adds for hydro products that would make buds any color or flavor the heart desired, through the root system at that. For experiment's sake I would say it's worth a try just to see the results.
     
  16. [quote name='"Sizlunt"']This forum is great, I wish I'd found it before I started this year's crop. The last time I grew was about 10 years ago, indoor. The funny thing was I did basically organically then as far as soils go, but I supplemented things with a mild fertilizer. This year, I did an outdoor grow, plants in ground. I didn't bother to have my soil analyzed and just amended it with perlite and peat moss, planning to use fertilizers as needed. What a fricken nightmare. Aside from spider mites, it turns out that my soil is extremely silty, meaning that it compacts to the consistency of concrete after watering. Obviously not great for aeration. I'm going to get a decent yield, but it has been way more work than it needed to be, and it's going to be far smaller than it could have been.

    I've since done some experimentation with soil amendment and have a pretty good mix down, although it turns out I only have like 15% or less native soil left in the mix.

    After heading up to another friend's house (posts here as Guerrillanugget) and seeing his organic results, I am never bothering with bottled nutes again. I'm not one of these people that buys all kinds of crap from the grow store, but I used fertilizers out of habit I suppose. Never again.[/quote]

    Guerilla Nugget is a great guy. That's cool that you two are friends. The whole flushing thing may have a place in your other friends chemical garden, but it's certainly not needed in an organic garden. The only organic nutrient I wouldn't use late in flower is fish emulsions because of the mercury ( and possible effect on flavor?).

    So can I ask, what type of fertilizers are you planning on using? Making tea or top dressing with a little kelp, alfalfa, and worm castings can go a long way for cheap.
     
  17. [quote name='"Sizlunt"']

    LOL! My friend and I were just talking about this last night. He was telling me to add Martinelli's cider to it, extolling the benefits because of how the fizzy bubbles will add oxygen to the roots. I said, umm man the bubbles in sparkling cider are carbon dioxide...

    It does bring up an interesting idea though. When you guy buy carnations in the store, if you see those varieties that have the red or blue tinged blossoms... that is caused by placing the cut flower into a dye/water mixture. The dye is transported to the blossoms (if you don't believe me, you can see for yourself that this works by buying some carnations and doing it yourself).

    What I've been mulling in the back of my mind is whether or not treating a bud in a similar manner would have a similar result, except instead of using dyes, use raspberry or strawberry puree mixed with water. Maybe blackberry juice. Not to go for flavor or fragrance, but color. I'm considering trying this with a bud this year as part of the curing process. For this bud, while it's in the humidor, I'd stick the stem in a solution and see if it works.

    Thoughts?[/quote]

    That only works on carnations because they 're white...a blank canvass. It won't work on something that already has a color as far as I know. I've messed around with feeding flavor extracts and whatnot. I don't think it's worth it. But it's always fun to experiment and learn these things for yourself. True knowledge doesn't come from a book. It comes from reading a book, not believing it, trying shit yourself, then re-reading the book thinking "Huh, they were right."

    At least that's how I learn everything hahaha. :p
     

  18. So that's a good question. Yes, I'll be brewing teas next year. As for my soil mix, I've been doing a lot of reading on this forum about that, and experimenting a bit with mixes while this year's crop winds down. As I said, my number 1 problem this year has been compacted, poorly draining soil. I should have picked up on it immediately and amended appropriately, but as GN can attest, the native soil out here actually looks deceptively good. Our property contains acres of old, feral fruit orchards, and our vegetable garden does great. My thinking was, OK, I'll put some perlite and peat moss in it, some nice compost from our compost pile, and some perlite for increased drainage, then just watch for nutrient problems. I think, though, that with the addition of the peat moss and not enough perlite, that I just made adobe lol. So next year's mix is tentatively as follows:

    It's basically Dank OZ's mix for the moss component, however, with a bit less moss and about 15% native soil. My native soil has quite a bit of iron and other mineral content, so I'm keeping a native component.

    For aeration, rice hulls (like I used to use, no idea why I went with perlite only this year) and sand.

    Blood meal, bone meal, crab shell meal, cottonseed meal, and kelp meal

    Then a bit of greensand as well for micronutrient availability.


    But keep in mind that these have been small batches testing mainly for drainage. I will say the tomato growing in a 5 gal. in the back yard seems to be *loving* the mix, it's about the healthiest looking thing I've ever seen. But mainly I'm seeing how things hold up after microorganisms get going in it as far as drainage goes. You have no idea how obsessed with drainage I am after this year.


    As for teas, I will be doing aerated tea based on these ingredients:

    Cottonseed meal
    Flax meal
    Alfalfa meal
    Local humus from the orchard floor
    Worm castings (starting my own vermicomposter soon)
    Kelp meal
    Fish hydrolsylate
    Humic acid
    Molasses (depending on what I want as far as fungi vs. bacteria)

    I'd never even heard of compost teas before coming here, so this will be new to me.
     

  19. Yep, I've thought about that. My thinking is that after curing, when the buds lighten a bit, that the absorbed color might be more visible, or it could give a different sort of hue. We'll see.
     
  20. My understanding of flushing is that it is far better suited to hydroponics than organics. As the plant continues to grow and swell during the last 7-14 days before harvest it continues to draw in nutrition from the media. Flushing an organic soil, which had not been regularly "fed" with chemical fertilizers, is most definitely just busy work. But, we cannot ignore our inexperienced brethren who feed improperly, or the soilless crowd who must feed the media.

    A plant which resides in a system devoid of nutrition for the last two weeks will ultimately carry a lower concentration of elements than a plant allowed access to nutrition straight through to harvest. Both plants increase in size leading up to harvest but a flushed plant will be forced to cannibalize what elements have been retained rather than being allowed to bring more of them into the plant tissue.

    We cannot really wash elements out of the roots. It is primarily a one way street when it comes to the npkcamg. The best idea is to have a good balanced ratio of one element to another whether in the starting mix or through a quality nutrient program. Typically, it is the over use of phosphorus that causes the harsh smoke and the black ash flushers are trying to avoid. In these High-P situations it is often too little, too late, when trying to rinse out the excess through the roots.

    If bud is truly tainted and just harsh as all hell water curing can be used to remove some excesses. It definitely ruins the flavor of the bid, but not the high, so do what you gotta do I guess.
     

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