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Simple Method: Isolating & Extracting INDIVIDUAL Cannabinoids... from BadKittySmiles

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by BadKittySmiles, May 25, 2012.


  1. Yes, that's very accurate.. under normal atmospheric pressure/s, most chemicals only just begin to evaporate as they approach their flashpoints, once that point is achieved the vapor production becomes very rapid, if not quite instant (any material trapped inside or within additional material that has yet to evaporate for instance, will not go off immediately.. it expands as it heats, and in our case we can only blow and expand a bag so much before we need to pause, and allow it to condense, so we can begin filling again... same with our lungs :) ).


    This is why the experience when vaporizing is so much different from smoking, it's also why processing our herb in different ways, with more or less heat for more or less time, can provide wildly different edible experiences all from the same herb. :hello:



    When vaporizing, not only are you delivering your cannabinoids at a very different rate and at a very different ratio, meaning they reach your receptors gradually and at different times from one another and, as a result, they do not regulate one another in quite the same way, but even that aside, you are also often leaving behind loads of CBD and CBN that would otherwise go up in an instant when smoked, because as the vapor output tapers off and the terpenes and THC (making up the majority of your resin) diminishes to nothing, most users assume their material is 'cashed', when in reality, the volume of vapor containing the lesser cannabinoids is just much, much smaller.
    And CBN and CBG, especially when combined with THC but even when used on their own, are directly responsible for the powerful sedative, analgesic, and sleep-inducing narcotic sensations we experience.


    It's why some vapes are more economic and are best for stealth and recreational use, and it's why they only cost $50 - $200, and why the others which are more popular with medical patients, can run well beyond $600. :)




    Referring back to the original post referencing Dr. Hornby's research, and taking the temperatures achieved at each setting on the volcano into consideration (you can google to find more of Dr. Hornby's work)....


    "Volcano Setting.. THC remaining mg/g CBN remaining mg/g CBD remaining mg/g"


    "Volc.... THC..CBN..CBD "

    6.0 - 260 / 0.05 / 0.6

    7.5 - 245 / 0.05 / 0.6

    9.0 - 75 / 0.05 / 0.15



    The above is what remained in the 'vaped' material, after filling four bags on those settings... it's why we fill the bags up to 6 - 8 times when purging and isolating! The early-middle bags produce the greatest volume of active chemicals, with a gradual approach the very first bag and the last few bags produce the least as production begins, and then tapers off.


    Where THC is available in the highest quantity over other cannabinoids in cannabis resin, it takes either a lot of patience to purge it off at just above its flashpoint, and vapes off the fastest at temperatures much higher than it's flashpoint, while CBD on the other hand, being (usually) only available at a teeny tiny fraction of the ratio, will diminish rapidly as it approaches and surpasses its flashpoint.



    Classic Volcano Dial 'rough' Temperature Settings:


    1 - 130 C / 266 F

    2 - 142 C / 288 F

    3 - 154 C / 309 F

    4 - 166 C / 331 F

    5 - 178 C / 352 F

    6 - 190 C / 374 F

    7 - 202 C / 396 F

    8 - 214 C / 417 F

    9 - 226 C / 439 F




    The above helps to explain why, especially low-temp vaporizers, tend to make users more 'cerebral'-high and not quite as sleepy and sedated, or as couch-locked, versus either the combustion or high-temp vaporization of the same active material.. whatever THC degrades to CBN, as the material is heated during vape sessions, will for the most part remain with the herb until it begins to approach and reach its appropriate flashpoint.



    Hope this helps! :smoke:
     
  2. Fantastic! Thanks for clearing that up Badkat. It's basically a form of the "purging" you spoke of, leaving the CBD and CBN behind. Now i plan to use the expended herb from my vape and process it into edibles for that more sedative effect. Essentially all natural sleeping pills/couch-lock inducers :D

    Also found it very surprising just how much of our cannabinoids are actually left behind after vaping. All the more reason to collect and reuse in the world of cooking!

    Thanks again for the insight
     
  3. #23 BadKittySmiles, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2012
    No worries, I'm always happy to help when I've got a moment :smoke:


    I've been trying to make a little more time for the forums, GC especially.. I've been a bit under the weather, and took the opportunity to take it easy during some of the forum updates, but now that the photos and upload abilities are working pretty well again, I'll hopefully be around a little more often these days. :D


    (And Storm Crow, if you're ever on the northern east coast, just let me know!... don't rush though, I'm running low on herb again already, just let me pulled down another crop so I can be a 'good hostess' :p )





    You've got the right idea towards the end, where you're not sure if it applies to solvent-based extractions. :)



    With vaporization and inhalation as a means of extraction and delivery, in order for the cannabinoids to be delivered to our lungs (or extraction/vape bags) in such a way, with only the use of temperature alone, they need to be converted into a vapor form.


    Otherwise, you'd just be left to try inhaling ground raw herb, in its entirety, with all the inert matter included. :p



    With edibles, the glandular material or the resin containing any active or inactive cannabinoids is usually instead extracted from the inert plant matter, and delivered to the body, via the use of edible solvents.


    In other words, 'canna oil'. :)


    The material can also instead be sifted first, either wet or dry but usually cold, or it can be extracted using an inedible solvent (later purged). In which case the collected trichomes or the concentrate undergoes activation if required, and then they would be placed into edible solvents, so they can be dissolved, the individual components are broken down, separated, and finally coated at a microscopic level in persistent layer of the solvent, ie. oil or lipids, which our digestive tissues can easily absorb.



    (In the pharmaceutical world this is sometimes known as liposomal encapsulation, or LET... the same process applied to chemicals that our tracts have difficulty absorbing, is also sometimes referred to as the 'metabolic enhancement' of that chemical.)



    Once adequately dissolved, blended and finally fully bonded into the form of a solution or carrier, these cannabinoids can be consumed orally and are delivered to our stomachs for absorption, via the solution of oil, meaning a vapor form is not required to deliver active chemicals into our bodies, and bloodstreams. :)


    ('Free-floating' cannabinoids can be absorbed in small numbers with some difficulty, by the various tissues of the digestive tract, similar to small quantities of free-floating vitamin C.
    But an actual solution or bonding with oil is required for the most effective/complete and rapid delivery.. free cannabinoids traveling in the liquid-solid contents of our tracts, tend to repel, and bounce off cell walls more frequently than they are absorbed, which leads to their eventual 'evacuation'.

    Bonded, or coated cannabinoids delivered as part of a formed solution, can instead passively slip through cell walls on contact, rapidly penetrating cell barriers just as easily, as the solvent they are coated with.)





    In other words, in terms of extracting individual cannabinoids using heat alone, and when vaporization and inhalation are concerned, the points at which cannabinoids can become vapor are crucial, only because they need to be converted to a vapor form in order to be removed from the plant matter without the use of a solvent, and because they need to be in the form of a vapor, in order to be delivered to the lungs. [​IMG]




    Decarboxylation is simply the process of eliminating the carboxyl group, and has only very little to do with vaping, in that it occurs as a prerequisite to the vapor production of our cannabinoids, due to its lower-temp volatility and early release.


    If the cannabinoid has become a vapor, then it has already reached its flash point at that pressure, and it has far surpassed the maximum temperature at which the carboxyl group may be maintained or preserved.



    But an extraction using solvents, on the other hand, can be performed without even decarbing the material! :hello:



    Not only do we regularly extract the full range of active cannabinoids at much lower temps than are required for their vaporization when using solvents, but even the carboxylic-acid-intact cannabinoids (ie. THCA, CBDA, CBGA etc.) can be extracted and made bioavailable.



    When having edibles analyzed by the labs, for overall content, potency and contaminants, you'll usually be given a readout that, along with the other phytochemicals, lists both THC.... AND a portion of THCA.
    That is stubborn THC that has not yet released its carboxyl group, but had still been successfully extracted and included in the oil, and edible, even after heating and baking.



    This is why you need to decarb many solvent-extracted concentrates, and why some concentrates may need more or less encouragement, in order to release their carboxylic acids, depending how harshly their solvents were purged.




    Long story short, the glandular material and your cannabinoids are oil/alcohol/glycerin etc. soluble, even at room temp, and lower. :)



    It's why folks make very successful oils and tinctures without heat, and often even at below room-temp, in spite of the fact that THC has a much higher flashpoint. :smoke:









    An easier, and probably much faster way to clear up any confusion would probably have been to mention that, if our solvents needed to reach temperatures at or near the flashpoints of certain cannabinoids, in order to extract them, then traditional BHO, frozen iso-hash extractions, and heat-less edibles would be fairly ineffective and unsuccessful. :smoke:
     
  4. #24 NorseMythology, Sep 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2012
    Hello badkat, i read a post of yours concerning liposomal vit c
    etc. and i was wondering if you might be able to answer a few
    questions. I recently got an ultrasonic cleaner for the purpose
    of making liposomal vit c but due to my girlfriends persisant
    back pain (due to herniated disc/surgery and scar tissue), my
    spare money has gone to meds to help ease her pains. I
    wanted a volcano vaporizer to make her meds go further but
    the initial $450 isnt an option now so ive researched and
    opted to making tinctures. My first batch was not potent
    enough so this batch i used roughly 3.5g in just under 1fl oz
    of everclear. I am using the cold extraction method and
    decarboxylated it rior to extraction. Now for my
    questions, for he sake of alleviating back pain, was
    decarboxylating unwise? Also, is there any way to add lecithin
    to increase the avaiability of the tincture? If so, how
    much might i add and at what point in the process? Thanks!
     
  5. *******************************
    Note that this message was intended to be sent privately to Bad Kitty Smiles, however this is the message I get when attempting to send through a message:
    "BadKittySmiles has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."
    People, please direct her attention to this post. Thank you.
    @ Bad Kitty Smiles - I have removed the VIP email address from this post. Please PM me with your email address, or clear space in your inbox, and I will be happy to provide you with the address. Thank you.
    *******************************

    Dear Bad Kitty Smiles,

    I am the production manager of the “Marijuana World Summit” contacting you with an important request. We are currently in the development stages of the first annual “Marijuana World Summit”, which you are welcome to learn more about by visiting our website, and at this time we are starting to reach out to contact certain people that we would like to invite to be a speaker / interviewee for the Summit. We would love for you be one of them.

    We discovered you through your multitude of posts on Grass City, and through the many links and references that point back to you when speaking of edibles. It appears that you are very knowledgeable and respected in the community.

    We would be honored to have you as our guest to speak about yourself, your journey with the healing plant, and of course we would like for you to discuss your baking, which from the sounds of it must be quite scrumptious indeed! The Marijuana World Summit is featuring speakers about the various topics pertaining to marijuana, and the topic we would like for you to share some insights on is about preparing medicinal edibles. We believe that you would be more than qualified to talk about that. There is plenty that we look forward to hearing you speak about, but the key focus we hope you could speak about is teaching how to decarb weed, and then explain in detail how to make various oils, edibles, topicals, and even suppositories. We believe that you could be instrumental in enlightening many thousands of people aboaut the wonders of using cannabis without having to smoke it, and surely many would be grateful to you for teaching them how. Thank you in advance for considering all this, and once you accept our invitation we would like to include you on this page:
    2013 Speakers for Marijuana World Summit

    Please do not respond to me here, but rather please use the VIP email ( ****REMOVED*****@marijuanaworldsummit.com ). Please DO NOT GIVE OUT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. This email address is not to be made public, as it is the direct line of communications with us, and if it becomes public then it could become inconvenient.

    Thank you for considering this opportunity to share your wisdom with the world. We look forward to your email reply.

    Production Manager, Marijuana World Summit
    Leaves of Hope Productions Inc.
     
  6. Not to be just completely negative about anything here, but, the method described, using a vaporizer is by far the worst suggestion for extractions.  This is terrible information. Anyone reading this should avoid any of the procedures, they are false. You will not get pure anything from this method.
     
    If you want something that works just as well as CBD oil then you can simply try a cold alcohol extract, with a room temp evaporation, so that minimal decaroxylation takes place.  As long as you do not heat the extract, or smoke it,  you will not get high. Note that this is not very great oil for smoking anyway, I am a firm believer of closed loop butane extracts, which are also THCA and can be eaton but are much more advanced extracts. good luck everyone.
     
  7.  
    If you have simply never heard of fractional distillation, a very common practice for separating chemical components based on their unique boiling/flashpoints used with other purposes even beyond its use isolating the components of a variety of plants besides, and including cannabis, that's an issue you need to solve at your own pace.
     That aside, I'm not sure you are really in any position to comment on the needs of patients, other than your own, especially without any info to back up this less than well researched opinion, and in particular where you clearly did not bother to read or comprehend the original post describing why solvent extraction methods should be used over fractional distillation when possible (at least briefly reading a post on a forum is a basic step that most feel it appropriate to take before commenting, whether they approve or not).
     
      But do keep reading around, and educate yourself, it's clear you have a certain amount of curiosity (although your approach obviously still needs some work! :p ) and there's loads of good info on GC, as well as google if you take a second to look around. :)
     
  8. I want to try and make a glycerin extract of CBD for myself as most CBD products out there are too overpriced and some are garbage. I was wondering if anybody has experience with this as I have some questions. I use a Storz and Bickel Plenty vaporizer not a Volcano (mine does not use collection bags). Would I be able to purge at just above 346 Fahrenheit and pre purge at around 390-400 Fahrenheit and then stick the herb into glycerin and do a glycerin extraction? Would glycerin be capable of pulling out CBD at this point?
     
  9. #29 ShatterWulf, Nov 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2014
    Have you tried working with a lab distillation setup? I mean, you're only a couple steps out from making Clear Concentrate, with this kind of isolation, and you can pick up a complete steam distillation setup which can process up to 2L (probably at an order of magnitude faster) for ~$300.
     
  10. I've never thought about doing a steam distillation, I would definitely be willing to try it out. 
     
  11. BKS you are a ganja goddess.
     
  12. #32 peaceyo, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
    After reading BKS post i understand that cannabinoids will be infused in, as an example, coconut oil even at room temperature. So what is the essential difference in the final product between heating/cooking the oil/cannabis mixture (starting from previously decarb cannabis i mean) vs not heating (or simply resting at room temperature)?
     
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  13. Here is my own steam distillation set up to process dispensary grade extracts (70% nominal thc) into nearly pure thc oil. With each successive run through the apparatus the oil becomes more and more refined. The terpenes, also known as Volitile Organic Compounds, do not get combusted when vaporized like they do when smoked in a pipe or joint. THC does not combust, it boils. VOCs (terps) are hydrocarbons and cause respiratory irritation. THC is not a hydrocarbon and to me tastes sweet chalky when vaped. I do not bother trying to extract from plant material when extracts are already so inexpensive, instead I take the fine extravts available and purify them. The process ensures that any residual solvent used in extraction are completely removed as a side benefit.
     
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