You Can Say Goodbye to Cannabis Legalization

Nice sweeping generalization.

Regardless, it still doesn't mean I should be taxed more because other idiots won't get health insurance.

 

Oh by the way. With all the well fare and free money our gov. gives out to unemployed, drug addicts I shouldnt have a problem at all.

 

I really think the economic reality of things is still a major factor towards legalization.

This country as a whole needs to stop treating "drugs" use as a public safety problem and start to treat it as a public health problem. For what it costs to investigate, prosecute, and incarcerate someone could easily send them into treatment for several months.

Our law enforcement of "drugs" really isn't that good. Considering that in 2009 between the US and State governments, we spent over $50 Billion on drug enforcement and we can't even keep drugs out of prisons? That's embarrassing. Spending $1500 a second is out of control. What a waste of money that could be used to help battle real problems in society.

 

I agree 100%. Drug addicts are NOT criminals. They are sick people who need help. Its crazy how the drug war has gotten so out of hand.

 

"You Can Say Goodbye to Cannabis Legalization"

Screw that. don't put out energy like this.

You can present facts without killing faith.

I do not believe this is a fight anyone can win against the people.

 

yes and your arguements i have seen on here are completely based on generalizations, such as i don't want my taxes raised to pay for all the people that abuse the system, that would mean that the majority of people getting government money are in fact abusing the system, but in reality i would say less then 5% of the population abuse the system..

i believe there is a difference between homeless and bums.. especially in these economic times, there are many hard working people that simply can't afford their medicine because they got laid off from their job, and being sick sucks when your looking for a job(i dont just mean with a cold or a flu).. i understand that you don't want to suport the abusers, but its the same thing with drugs, why should the responsible stoner be punished because of the criminal that also smokes weed...

i don't have a problem with my taxes being raised because i know that there are truely sick and homeless who simply cannot afford to live a quality life... who knows one day i may have the misfortune of being one of those homeless or sick persons, that worked their whole life and got laid off, with no savings because i was paying my childrens tuition for a better education, and yes health insurance that i can no longer afford because there is no money coming in...

 

While it seems like pouring trillions of dollars into our healthcare issue is a good idea, I believe that fundamentally the smaller the government, the better. Look at any government-run business, they are run terribly and hemorrhage tax money.

 

is a smaller government better of course, do i feel like health care is something government should give to its people, yes just like education should be free,(both paid through taxes, obviously), you want to be part of this country, but you don't want to help anybody but yourself out, i don't understand how we can all be one country and so divided against eachother, its almost like the politicians are playing a game of divide and conquer with us just like every government that ever wanted to get their way has done with their people since the beginning of government...

now time to write a essay about native american relations with the us government in the 1890's.. ahh yes wounded knee masacre, to think are government could never be so ruthless.

 

I love how you articulated that argument. I'm loving this thread, because there is an abundance of proof here that shows how educated and intelligent marijuana users are.

I firmly disagree with your assessments however.

#1 - Democrats did not create this fiscal disaster our country is in. If you look back to Bill Clinton's days we were running at a surplus. George Bush squandered that money by giving it to the richest 1% instead of paying down the national debt or fixing social security or medicare or any other program in need of fixing.

George Bush ran deficits all 8 years of his presidency. It was George Bush and the Republicans who have had hold on this country. The Republicans were in control up until the 2006 election. They continually voted for plans that just give the money to the rich and the big corporations instead of helping the people who need it the most.

It was the republicans that put us in this fiscal shit hole that we are in now. They voted over and over and over again for budgets that ran large deficits. It was the republicans and George Bush who rammed through the Patriot Act. The republicans pay lip service to balancing the budget, but they are like lions in sheep's clothing.

OBAMA has only been in office for one year guys. He inherited the fiscal budget of George Bush and has only added a stimulus + bailouts.

As far as the stimulus goes - It was shown that the stimulus had between a 1.9 to 3.9% effect on GDP for the 3rd quarter of 2009. GDP was up 1.8%. In other words, without the stimulus our country would still be officially in a recession. The stimulus, while unpopular, has prevented things from getting worse. Things would be a lot worse without the stimulus. The states in particular would have had to lay off a huge number of state and federal workers if they had not received money "bailouts" from the federal government given in the stimulus.

As far as health care goes - I'm against the public option (WHICH ISN'T INCluded in the final bill anyway), but the rest of it looks good. By estimates this bill would actually provide 31 million people insurance without adding to the deficit (perhaps even lowering it). The only people not included would be 1) Illegal aliens and 2) Those who would prefer to pay a small fine rather than sign up for it (ie 18-30 yr olds who think they are invincible). Everyone else is covered. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT! I know first hand at least 10 people who want insurance but can't afford it. They are forced to go to the ER and receive care there. They live life very unhealthy, because they can't see specialists for their maladies like those who have insurance can.

The Health care bill MAKES SENSE guys. Support for it is now around 50% BTW. It was 30% in the beginning but the numbers are even in the latest polls.

While I'm an independent, and do vote for republicans perhaps 25-30% of the time, I think it's important to support a progressive agenda where people have the basic rights of health care in this country - the richest in the world. I AM TIRED OF THE REPUBLICANS AND THEIR HAND OUTS TO THE RICH AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS.

We need to get a firm control over the budget and get off of the deficits.

In order to do this the following will need to happen:
1) Huge decreases in spending - unlikely, no one wants to see their programs cut - not even the republicans, and they don't have a history of cutting programs.
2) Tax increases which increase the TAX BASE. Instead of the top 5% paying the majority of the taxes, it's going to have to be the top 25%. It's going to happen guys. Mark my words.

 

What's all this about Michigan? I haven't heard anything.

EDIT: Found the post earlier. Fuck. Shit. Fuck. I was just getting ready to start going my own.

 

Many tea-baggers are in favor of legalization as well-- after all, the movement has it's roots in libertarianism

 

If you think that Bush "created" this disaster, then you don't understand economics and I would suggest that you stop commenting on things you don't understand. The Dems are just as much as fault for the system we have as the Republicans. They're two wings of the same bird.

Your thinking is kind of short-sighted. We've had a deficit so large we could never really hope to pay it back since the years of Reagan. Again, blaming the Republicans for everything just shows what a partisan hack you are. If you really think this is all their fault, I suggest you open up an economics book.

Obama signed his own stimulus and his own bailouts. Stop blaming Bush for everything. Bush isn't the sole source of evil in the entire world. In terms of their political actions, Obama is basically the equivalent of Bush. Also, your reasoning for the stimulus has no evidence to support it. Take a look at this graph:



Still think the stimulus worked?

 

Rome wasn't build in a day and the economy surely wasn't going to right itself immediately after the stimulus was put in its obviously a recovery that is going to take TIME and just because unemployment is up doesn't mean that it won't go down and level off a bit when things start to get back to normal.

Damnit this is not how I wanted my 420th post to be...

You're right, you can't blame bush for everything.. let's be honest though. Can you look at me straight up and tell me Bush did more better than Harm? Please.

 

Sorry man.

If you believe there is still going to be a recovery or we are in the process of recovery, then you don't understand why we crashed and that absolutely nothing has changed since then. We're headed in the same direction we were before the crash (Hint: it's towards another crash). What we have now is a "boom-bust economy." No matter how much we recover, until we change the fundamentals of our economy, we're doomed to repeat what happened towards the end of 2008.

As for your last question, I'm an anarchist, so I doubt you're going to hear a lot of praise for politicians from me. Bush is just the old master. Obama is the new one, same as the old one.

 

.........

How do you go from Bush, one of the worst presidents in US history (so far) to being the same as Obama? Who has actually tried to change things (healthcare, stopping prosecutions of medical marijuana patients, stopping torture, actually listening to scientists now(EPA anyone?), focusing on afghanistan instead of pushing democracy in the middle east, completely changing how the rest of the world views America, and more I have forgotten right now) all in his first year in office. I can't name a single good thing bush accomplished in his EIGHT years as president. Policy wise or politically. He's why the republicans got thier ass handed to them in the 06 elections. Becuase people were tired of the republicans mindset of going with the status quo of Bush's policies becuase they made NO SENSE and people were realizing what a mistake to elect him in 04 was. I say 04 becuase he wasn't even legally elected in 2000. He used his Family influence in the state of flordia and the US Supreme court to steal that election. They never recounted that state and I firmly believe that Gore won that election had the US Supreme court not stopped the recount. So Bush should never have been president in the first place. He wasn't even grateful, he took every change he got to do what he wanted when he wanted, to hell with checks and balances, he ruled like a king and then when people questioned him or his staff he would just invoke executive priviledge so the guilty wouldn't have to testify. For the ones that got convicted, he pardoned them. So you tell me..How in the world do you justify a statement like that? Just becuase you may not agree with Obama, doesn't mean you can compare two things that are so far opposite that if you brought them together, the universe would probably end becuase it would be like dividing my zero..It just doesn't work.

 

Yeah it sickens me to. Democrats and Republicans are both bad news for marijuana legalization.

We need politicians with some common sense like Libertarians.

 

@Kstigs: me and you have a lot in common

@iCANabis: Obama is really just a puppet of the Democrats. Every single one of the things he said during his campaign were complete BS as we see now. Now im not saying Bush is better. They are both really bad presidents and both the Democrats and Republicans need to shape up their parties and stop all the corruption that is going on in this country.

*sigh* If only the founding fathers of this country could see all that is going on now. I wonder what they would have to say about this.

 

Wow this is a wall of text. First of all, it's way too early to call Bush the "one of the worst presidents in history." He's only been out of office for a year.

I numbered some of your claims to make the debunking of this massive wall a little easier.

1) Nothing has changed in health care
2) Torture is still going on as nothing has changed since the infamous "torture memos" went out.
3) The EPA wants to regulate CO2. If you don't see a problem in this, you truly are a blind sheep.
4) Afghanistan will never have a functioning democracy. The populace is too uneducated and they don't even want a democracy. They just want to be left alone.
5) Please explain this one. Just because we have a black dude as president instead of a white dude, doesn't mean everyone loves us.

As for the part of the 2000 election, I got news for you: 2004 was no better, and I bet 2008 was, again, the same exact deal. Presidents don't have to win anymore, they're selected. Obama was selected to win, just like Bush was. Bush's may have been slightly more obvious, but that doesn't mean Obama won fair and square. If you don't believe me look into how shady the voting machine business is.

Also, Obama has done the same thing with his executive powers. He's been using all the powers that Bush was. If you were paying attention you would know this, but it seems you're just spitting out campaign rhetoric.