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Worm castings "burn"..?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by nernerderd, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. So I transplanted some clones about a week ago. I used a mix of 33/33/33 peat/ewc/perlite with no extra amendments added. im noticing some leaves curling up and twisty with some browning.. "burning". I never had this problem using sunshine mix #1 with a light amout of ffof mixed in. Since switching to building my own soil based upon itg's beginner soil mix I realized that it is a "hot" mix.

    My main question is.. is it the ewc that cause the "burning" people speak of. In most of the info I come across I find people say that using the base mix for rooted clones is safe. should I "cook" even the unamended base soil as well? Any info would be appreciated...
     
  2. You wouldn't need to cook you soil if you haven't added any nutrients and I'm not sure that worm castings can burn plants, maybe that depends on what the worms ate but that's just a guess?
     
  3. #3 nernerderd, Jan 4, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
    Im am using wiggle worm casting. Supposedly from what I could find are fed a diverse peat humus, and are considered by some to be high quality. So my questions still lie.
     
  4. ...so let me elaborate on what I have in understanding in using organic soil mixes....

    A little while back I started a few threads with the "cooking" and "burning" topics in mind. My first questions were regarding a lighter soil mix with 3/4cup each of kelp, alfalfa, and Dr earth dry organic fert... In about 2cu ft. of soil mix. I transplanted well rooted clones directly into this mix without cooking and only had "burn" on one of the three strains by week 4-5. I then later mixed a stronger mix like itg's mix.. Which was 2cups kelp; 1cup each of alfalfa, dry fert, crab meal, and neem meal. With appropriate amounts of rock dust and lime... In about 3 cu feet of soil.

    Through my building process people had posted that the microbial life cycling up would be the case of burning from what I am to understand, not the dry amendments... Unless ofcourse are used in very high doses. I was explained that most likely the non-cycled soil would just be light in available nutrients because the bacterias and fungi wouldnt have broken down enough yet. So any burning would come from the rise in temp. from microbial population increasing. Please correct me on any of this.

    I realized from doing more reading some people refer to this style as a super soil. Then I read into layering. Which is more of an outdoor method of doing things I come to find out. I came to the conlusing diluting the mix might be best. Im not really sure, since I am planning on recycling everything. I am told by some that the cycling will make the soil better and easier for the plants next time around. Still wondering if diluting the super soil is going to change anything. especially when I am seeing similar "burning" in non-amended soil mix.

    Should I even be getting burn from the added amendments I have in any scenario? Or might this be something else?

    I should bring up my use of Alaska humus by general organics I think. I use about 50/50 humus and the wiggle worm castings for my vermicompost additive in my base mix. Could this be the reasoning behind the "burning"? Anyone have experience on the issue?

    Should I dilute my later mix at all? Im really kinda lost on this one. Thanks all.
     
  5. do you have any pictures of the burning? maybe it's just stress from cloning, or maybe its from heat? i don't have a lot of knowledge on this topic but i figure any poking around could help, right?
     
  6. I give a beneficial bacteria and with castings to all new seedlings. Don't think it's possible to burn with castings.
     
  7. Af Alaska humus maybe?
     
  8. that looks more like a nitrogen/phosphorous deficiency than a nitrogen burn to me..
     
  9. #10 nernerderd, Jan 4, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
    Sry dude thanks for your time, but no offense, grow shop info isnt going to help me here. im not looking for a quick fix. im sure they will pulk out of it in time. Which just means a longer veg before flower.

    Im trying to get the whole picture. I know this is "burn". These lil gals dont need much for vegging. Ive never added anything to fresh clones, and had perfect results until I mixed my own base mix. Which I might add is a lot better. There is another underlying issue. I am sure of it.
     
  10. one thing worth asking/noting: did you add lime to the mix? as far as i understand it, someone basically found out that "alaska humus" is just glorified peat moss? i could be wrong. Either way, with the 1/3 parts of peat/ewc/pearlite, you'd still need something to balance the PH of the peat, and even more so if the alaska humus is what i think it is--more peat. that could be causing some issues.
     
  11. I think Nick is right.:D:smoking: try some lime.
     
  12. Do you think pelleted dolomite woukd break down fast enough. I only transplanted a week ago
     

  13. While I've never seen worm castings "burn" a plant, if you are seeing it I'm thinking it could be more of a pH reaction from the acidic peat. That's the only thing I can think of...

    These days I try and nutrient cycle everything. My clones go directly into the "hot mix" that they will finish in - but at the same time it has say and cycled for months...

    J
     
  14. I was thinking of lime until i read the whole thread, i was right, get lime in that fast.. i'm adding dolomite lime in my organic veg/flowering soil mix, but my seedling soil mix is simple.

    Seedlings - 40% Canna Coco, 20% Worm Castings & 40% Perlite
     

  15. I highly doubt it. It takes a bit to break down, like everything else.

    I bet your plants will be funky for a few weeks and then come out of this. Do you have a cycled soil ready for them?

    I use ProMix just for this reason - it already has lime and I don't have to worry about it, but we all get some funky plants here and there - they always end up fine.
     
  16. Here's how one of my girls looked after TP into old soil. Looked like shit but after about a week of water only she's doin fine.
     
  17. Correct X - sometimes the transplant itself into a new soil may be a bit funky, but unless you're way off on a soil mix, organics always seems to even out and the plants come out of it just fine and dandy.

    I "do" bet that this is a (very) slight issue with acidic peat pH, though, Shodan. I bet you end up fine but perhaps next time plan ahead and mix in a few tablespoons of agricultural lime, or some kind of liming agent into the mix and allow it to cycle for a few weeks or a month. Letting any of your mixes nutrient cycle is ALWAYS a good thing.

    Another good thing to use for seedlings and clones is old soil - soil that you've already grown in and has cycled itself well, and then there's no real chance of "burning" (I hate that word but its all I have).

    Here are a couple of several week old clones - perhaps ten days old. They are in my same old same old soil mix - what some may call my "hot" mix (I hate that word too lol), but the mix has had plenty of time - let's say several months to nutrient cycle. This mix has all the regular "finishing soil" stuff in it, yet it will not nor can it burn my plants because it has had sufficient time to nutrient cycle.

    It's ALL about nutrient cycling - dig it?

    J
     

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  18. I would agree on the acid soil suggestions. The ewc is not the problem here. Your plants are not burned, but are suffering the effects of acid soil which has locked out needed micro nutrients. Dolomite lime in powdered form should be easy to find, if not, you need to crush the pelleted product into a fine powder for faster results. When using peat-lite mixes you must adjust the acidity with some type of liming agent.

    PW
     
  19. #20 nernerderd, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
    So you would suggest not diluting the mix at all. you would say its mainly my peat ph acting up? given my described current mix. would you then believe that there is no chance of the nutrition additives causing problems? As long as its cycled enough. Or even not at all.

    So to again clarify my base soil is most likely a bit acidic. Cycling and adding some lime should fix this in time. My main concern then still is weather or not I should dilute the mix at all or ever? Honestly my ladies that are having the same issue latish into flower really didnt have too many issues. buds are good looking and everything.

    I just need a little reasurance I guess. I stumbled accross "super soil" reading after I found ITG's tutorial. Some of the things I read sounded a bit gimmicky. I also realized most of the recipes I found to be similar with a few extreme exceptions. Then brought me to the conclusion that tye industry is all about makin dollas. Overdoing is advertised as "the" way of doing, in order to create sales. so yea this is why I am reaching out for help. Ive been messed with by words.

    So if this "burning" im seeing is going to happen weather the soil packed with amendments or not(well at least till it balances out with the lime). I should go with not diluting the mix at all? Keep it cycling right.

    Would you say its almost impossible to burn with my recipe? And to make sure I add the lime correctly....

    Also whats a good way to test my mixes ph. I have a good ec/ppm/ph pen I havnt thrown out yet, lol. Maybe usefull still at the beginning to varify my issues orrigins. Since maybe its ph.
     

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