World Wide Politics, All Welcome, have your say

Discussion in 'Politics' started by deadlystead, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']

    Get Federal regulations, (writing law outside of the Congress through bureaucracies a blatant unconstitutional act perpetrated by Congress to allow Departments to usurp the own authority) The majority of these Regulatory Departments should be done through the States without Federal Authority.[/quote]

    On this we agree but

    " They earned it it's theirs"

    By what means do u earn the ability to purchase nations? The temptation of such a weapon ( and yes I mean Weapon) creates a god like complex, to even the humblest of men. If we set a limit to what a person could earn the World would undoubtedly be a better place and we could truly have a democratic Republic of Free people.
     
  2. #22 fayn2madness, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012

    What country are you from?

    http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/libertarians/issues/friedman-soc-resp-business.html



    ¶

    It took centuries of intellectual, philosophical development to achieve political freedom. It was a long struggle, stretching from Aristotle to John Locke to the Founding Fathers. The system they established was not based on unlimited majority rule, but on its opposite: on individual rights, which were not to be alienated by majority vote or minority plotting. The individual was not left at the mercy of his neighbors or his leaders: the Constitutional system of checks and balances was scientifically devised to protect him from both. This was the great American achievement—and if concern for the actual welfare of other nations were our present leaders’ motive, this is what we should have been teaching the world.

    Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal

    “Theory and Practice,”
    Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal

    Are you a looter? Why would you want to limit MY ability to make all the money I can? Why would you want me to limit your abilities?

    To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money—and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man’s mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being—the self-made man—the American industrialist.

    If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose—because it contains all the others—the fact that they were the people who created the phrase “to make money.” No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity—to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created.

    For the New Intellectual

    “The Meaning of Money,”
    For the New Intellectual, 93
     
  3. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q"]If you're not rich already...[/ame]
     

  4. while it is entertaining and holds much truth, that is posted everywhere as an answer?, that is a complaint verbalizing what we all know, fix it. We are not looking to rehash the whining complaints of 75 years.

    If you believe you can change nothing then you don't belong in this thread. If you believe that, then you believe Churchill is a fictional character, you believe Reagan, Thatcher and Pope John Paul had nothing to do with the fall of the USSR. If you believe that you believe the men who sacrificed all, everything they owned even their own sons, to give us individual God Given Natural Rights were characters in fairy tales. We do hold just enough power still to change things...Do you know how? Do you have ideas? I believe it doesn't take money or much more than you already do.
     
  5. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']

    What country are you from?

    http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/libertarians/issues/friedman-soc-resp-business.html

    ¶

    It took centuries of intellectual, philosophical development to achieve political freedom. It was a long struggle, stretching from Aristotle to John Locke to the Founding Fathers. The system they established was not based on unlimited majority rule, but on its opposite: on individual rights, which were not to be alienated by majority vote or minority plotting. The individual was not left at the mercy of his neighbors or his leaders: the Constitutional system of checks and balances was scientifically devised to protect him from both. This was the great American achievement—and if concern for the actual welfare of other nations were our present leaders’ motive, this is what we should have been teaching the world.

    Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal

    “Theory and Practice,”
    Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal

    Are you a looter? Why would you want to limit MY ability to make all the money I can? Why would you want me to limit your abilities?

    To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money—and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man’s mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being—the self-made man—the American industrialist.

    If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose—because it contains all the others—the fact that they were the people who created the phrase “to make money.” No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity—to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created.

    For the New Intellectual

    “The Meaning of Money,”
    For the New Intellectual, 93[/quote]

    Florida, the checks and balances system is brilliant IF it is implemented but today we see the corruption of it as nearly daily affairs, from congress to the executive branch, unconstitutional bills are passed without recognition, and so on, as for a social responsibility, if the laws are designed For profit then it is a fail across the board. Am I a looter? No i do believe you should work to earn and be compensated accordingly but how can you justify someone earning billions of dollars? When firefighters, honest police officers, soldiers, people who risk their lives to uphold Our moral ideas make nowhere near that amount, and to what extent would u need such an amount, u could already achieve happiness with material possessions... the founding fathers believe the individual is above the collective but there is no one without the other because u need a collective to defend the rights of the individual. And your American ideas of the greatest worker sounds great on paper BUT how is it acceptable when profit can be gained by simply the movement of large sums? Or that you acquire a sufficient sum of money to be treated unfairly against the majority? Just look at our tax brackets, there is no excuse for this, if they choose not to spend their money here then they must not be allowed to do business with us, I would also mandate that corporations cannot out source jobs to other countries if they wish to enjoy our marketplace, its Needs to be a fair market.
     
  6. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']
    a country of money—and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement.[/quote]

    A country of money does not mean these things. It creates an illusion by which those without it, are disenfranchised and deemed irrelevant to the overall progress of PROFIT. This notion prohibits true progress and only divides its people into two groups, the have and have nots.
     
  7. It is your choice to choose your calling knowing what the compensations likely are. I know many firemen, they all everyone have outside interests and make quite a fair living doing other business during their 3 days off. They seem quite happy, content people probably more so than most acquaintances I have.
    If you don't like the tax code what do you do to change it? The Sixteenth amendment was passed illegally. Do we get together as individuals and push them to change it? Taxed Enough Already? Look how that has been and is portrayed. If we didn't have that little piece of illegal work known as the 16th amendment pushed by progressives, would the corporations be in the position they are now? What about the 17th Amendment? Senators were originally supposed to be appointed by duly elected State Legislatures. How do you think the 17th Amendment put Senators in the position to serve themselves rather than their States?

    Do you write congress? Do you talk to friends and family w/o turning nuts? Do you hide your opinions because you are afraid of being judged, do you think what you were taught to think?

    It's not about $ though it's about what we do with what we have to work with. We must make it work For US, we do still have the power to make it work for us. Barely.
    The types of people who manipulate us like puppets into thinking we have no power are all the while taking our power from us. The Government is Educating us into becoming cattle stealing our independence by granting the looters our hard earned compensation. They the Government point their fingers at corporate America, I say look who is doing the pointing and what are they doing? Corporate America takes what is offered, works with what is there it is in their self interest and that is the most moral position. There is nothing wrong with earning all the money you can, especially if you employ thousands.
    But if you took away the Corporatist Government protections would the monopolies be what they are.



    Meet da'Man



    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3N2sNnGwa4]Free to Choose: Part 1 of 10 The Power of the Market (Featuring Milton Friedman) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  8. offer more
     
  9. A corporation is a union of human beings in a voluntary, cooperative endeavor. It exemplifies the principle of free association, which is an expression of the right to freedom. Any attributes which corporations have are attributes (or rights) which the individuals have-including the right to combine in a certain way, offer products under certain terms, and deal with others according to certain rules, for instance, limited liability.
    An individual can say to a storekeeper, “I would like to have credit, but I put you on notice that if I can't pay, you can't attach my home-take it or leave it.” The storekeeper is free to accept those terms, or not. A corporation is a cooperative productive endeavor which gives a similar warning explicitly. It has no mystical attributes, no attributes that don't go back to the rights of individuals, including their right of free association.
    Leonard Peikoff,
    The Philosophy of Objectivism lecture series, Lecture 9



    A corporation is a union of human beings in a voluntary, cooperative endeavor. It exemplifies the principle of free association, which is an expression of the right to freedom. Any attributes which corporations have are attributes (or rights) which the individuals have-including the right to combine in a certain way, offer products under certain terms, and deal with others according to certain rules, for instance, limited liability.
    An individual can say to a storekeeper, “I would like to have credit, but I put you on notice that if I can't pay, you can't attach my home-take it or leave it.” The storekeeper is free to accept those terms, or not. A corporation is a cooperative productive endeavor which gives a similar warning explicitly. It has no mystical attributes, no attributes that don't go back to the rights of individuals, including their right of free association.


    Leonard Peikoff,
    The Philosophy of Objectivism lecture series, Lecture 9


    If a small group of men were always regarded as guilty, in any clash with any other group, regardless of the issues or circumstances involved, would you call it persecution? If this group were always made to pay for the sins, errors, or failures of any other group, would you call that persecution? If this group had to live under a silent reign of terror, under special laws, from which all other people were immune, laws which the accused could not grasp or define in advance and which the accuser could interpret in any way he pleased-would you call that persecution? If this group were penalized, not for its faults, but for its virtues, not for its incompetence, but for its ability, not for its failures, but for its achievements, and the greater the achievement, the greater the penalty-would you call that persecution?
    If your answer is “yes”-then ask yourself what sort of monstrous injustice you are condoning, supporting, or perpetrating. That group is the American businessmen . . .
    Every ugly, brutal aspect of injustice toward racial or religious minorities is being practiced toward businessmen.. . . Every movement that seeks to enslave a country, every dictatorship or potential dictatorship, needs some minority group as a scapegoat which it can blame for the nation's troubles and use as a justification of its own demands for dictatorial powers. In Soviet Russia, the scapegoat was the bourgeoisie; in Nazi Germany, it was the Jewish people; in America, it is the businessmen.


    “America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business,”
    Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 44
     
  10. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']
    It is your choice to choose your calling knowing what the compensations likely are. I know many firemen, they all everyone have outside interests and make quite a fair living doing other business during their 3 days off. They seem quite happy, content people probably more so than most acquaintances I have.
    If you don't like the tax code what do you do to change it? The Sixteenth amendment was passed illegally. Do we get together as individuals and push them to change it? Taxed Enough Already? Look how that has been and is portrayed. If we didn't have that little piece of illegal work known as the 16th amendment pushed by progressives, would the corporations be in the position they are now? What about the 17th Amendment? Senators were originally supposed to be appointed by duly elected State Legislatures. How do you think the 17th Amendment put Senators in the position to serve themselves rather than their States?

    Do you write congress? Do you talk to friends and family w/o turning nuts? Do you hide your opinions because you are afraid of being judged, do you think what you were taught to think?

    It's not about $ though it's about what we do with what we have to work with. We must make it work For US, we do still have the power to make it work for us. Barely.
    The types of people who manipulate us like puppets into thinking we have no power are all the while taking our power from us. The Government is Educating us into becoming cattle stealing our independence by granting the looters our hard earned compensation. They the Government point their fingers at corporate America, I say look who is doing the pointing and what are they doing? Corporate America takes what is offered, works with what is there it is in their self interest and that is the most moral position. There is nothing wrong with earning all the money you can, especially if you employ thousands.
    But if you took away the Corporatist Government protections would the monopolies be what they are.

    Meet da'Man

    Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3N2sNnGwa4[/quote]

    You may know of the compensation but does that make them anymore just? I am fully aware of this . fallacy that we have no power, and by all means i agree that government is responsible for corporate America which is why reform is needed in almost every aspect. Indeed the " Elected Officials" are responsible for allowing such a environment to occur but just because it is legal we shouldn't ignore the product. They are infact two distinct issues and yet are interwined in a perpetual sense. One supports the other, look at lobbyist and campaign "donations". There is a problem with earning as much as u can because Money is not an infinite resource, but that in no way means u should not be paid for your work, the point im trying to emphasize is " To what end?". The extremes of wealth in this world is completely unreasonable. Yes to employ thousands is a great feat, and worthy of consideration, but at what number do u finally say enough is enough, when u get to the point where cost is far beyond and issue, where insane amounts of wealth are passed down generation after generation without work at all, they cease to earn and merely gain the ability to play god
     
  11. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']
    offer more[/quote]

    Well what power do we wield if our crys are drowned out by the sound of $. Our legislature clearly ignores the voice of the people . Our protest are ignored, our needs are criticized, and those who speak out receive little coverage. Plz if u know a way inform me now, i do wish to partake in politics, i do speak out and attempt to inform ppl, and will continue doing so but as time progresses i am becoming thoroughly convinced a radical change is needed.
     
  12. Ok fan now i got to get serious lol, btw excellent points although i am disinclined to agree with u on certain issues but upon reflection i realized that over the course of this discussion to many points are lost through this means of me attempting to discuss them through my mobile phone so now imma have to break out the pen and pad for this one, btw im giving u credit where credit is due fan you are well versed although i hope we could find middle ground
     

  13. Money is the tool of men who have reached a high level of productivity and a long-range control over their lives. Money is not merely a tool of exchange: much more importantly, it is a tool of saving, which permits delayed consumption and buys time for future production. To fulfill this requirement, money has to be some material commodity which is imperishable, rare, homogeneous, easily stored, not subject to wide fluctuations of value, and always in demand among those you trade with. This leads you to the decision to use gold as money. Gold money is a tangible value in itself and a token of wealth actually produced. When you accept a gold coin in payment for your goods, you actually deliver the goods to the buyer; the transaction is as safe as simple barter. When you store your savings in the form of gold coins, they represent the goods which you have actually produced and which have gone to buy time for other producers, who will keep the productive process going, so that you’ll be able to trade your coins for goods any time you wish.


    “Egalitarianism and Inflation,”
    Philosophy: Who Needs It, 127

    Money cannot function as money, i.e., as a medium of exchange, unless it is backed by actual, unconsumed goods.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNc-xhH8kkk&list=UUo4bDsRZPS_Nyljf7MR1ugg&index=6&feature=plcp[/ame]
     
  14. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']A corporation is a union of human beings in a voluntary, cooperative endeavor. It exemplifies the principle of free association, which is an expression of the right to freedom. Any attributes which corporations have are attributes (or rights) which the individuals have—including the right to combine in a certain way, offer products under certain terms, and deal with others according to certain rules, for instance, limited liability.
    An individual can say to a storekeeper, “I would like to have credit, but I put you on notice that if I can’t pay, you can’t attach my home—take it or leave it.” The storekeeper is free to accept those terms, or not. A corporation is a cooperative productive endeavor which gives a similar warning explicitly. It has no mystical attributes, no attributes that don’t go back to the rights of individuals, including their right of free association.
    Leonard Peikoff,
    The Philosophy of Objectivism lecture series, Lecture 9

    A corporation is a union of human beings in a voluntary, cooperative endeavor. It exemplifies the principle of free association, which is an expression of the right to freedom. Any attributes which corporations have are attributes (or rights) which the individuals have—including the right to combine in a certain way, offer products under certain terms, and deal with others according to certain rules, for instance, limited liability.
    An individual can say to a storekeeper, “I would like to have credit, but I put you on notice that if I can’t pay, you can’t attach my home—take it or leave it.” The storekeeper is free to accept those terms, or not. A corporation is a cooperative productive endeavor which gives a similar warning explicitly. It has no mystical attributes, no attributes that don’t go back to the rights of individuals, including their right of free association.

    Leonard Peikoff,
    The Philosophy of Objectivism lecture series, Lecture 9

    If a small group of men were always regarded as guilty, in any clash with any other group, regardless of the issues or circumstances involved, would you call it persecution? If this group were always made to pay for the sins, errors, or failures of any other group, would you call that persecution? If this group had to live under a silent reign of terror, under special laws, from which all other people were immune, laws which the accused could not grasp or define in advance and which the accuser could interpret in any way he pleased—would you call that persecution? If this group were penalized, not for its faults, but for its virtues, not for its incompetence, but for its ability, not for its failures, but for its achievements, and the greater the achievement, the greater the penalty—would you call that persecution?
    If your answer is “yes”—then ask yourself what sort of monstrous injustice you are condoning, supporting, or perpetrating. That group is the American businessmen . . .
    Every ugly, brutal aspect of injustice toward racial or religious minorities is being practiced toward businessmen.. . . Every movement that seeks to enslave a country, every dictatorship or potential dictatorship, needs some minority group as a scapegoat which it can blame for the nation’s troubles and use as a justification of its own demands for dictatorial powers. In Soviet Russia, the scapegoat was the bourgeoisie; in Nazi Germany, it was the Jewish people; in America, it is the businessmen.

    “America’s Persecuted Minority: Big Business,”
    Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 44[/quote]

    A corporation is an Association of Individuals [ Not a cooperative in the sense of a noun but only as an adjective by which it becomes redundant and could be applicable to Any group ( Positive or Negative)] controlled by shareholders, Corporations deal in the management of money, borrowing and the distribution of shares etc. On this I agree whole heartedly as to the purpose of a corporation in the first place. As for corporations having the same Rights as Individuals, I disagree. A Corporation is a legal entity, not an Individual. And free association should not apply to business because if it is unconstrained and illogical then it is not feasible and thus inappropriate. As to the "Terms", your example was clear and concise yet in the real world that is often not the case as it is generally designed to use jargon, be quite confusing, and time consuming to an unreasonable extent. And when Mega corporations already have an unfair advantage in the market, "Donate" to political campaigns in the form of " Contributions", Peikoff holds only an idea

    Business men are not some minority that receives "Unjust Punishment". If they are found guilty they Must receive proper persecution, NO group should shrink from criticism if their actions affect someone, not every instance is foreseeable which is why laws must adapt. "Sins,Errors, or Failures" that is bullshit right there. "Live under special laws" Well yes business is special, to think otherwise would be lunacy. "Grasp or define in advance", are they serious? Laws against unethical practice are pretty clear and for the rest, it is THEIR responsibility Know and follow the laws and regulations of whatever industries they partake in, Willful Ignorance is not Innocence. These "Virtues" you speak of are unprecedented in size and means. The shortsightedness of those who created these laws must not be the cause to allow such an accumulation of wealth, There Must be Limits. The rest is a complete exaggeration using propaganda to earn sympathy from the ill informed by presenting it as a poor me scenario...... They're still RICH.
     
  15. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']

    Money is the tool of men who have reached a high level of productivity and a long-range control over their lives. Money is not merely a tool of exchange: much more importantly, it is a tool of saving, which permits delayed consumption and buys time for future production. To fulfill this requirement, money has to be some material commodity which is imperishable, rare, homogeneous, easily stored, not subject to wide fluctuations of value, and always in demand among those you trade with. This leads you to the decision to use gold as money. Gold money is a tangible value in itself and a token of wealth actually produced. When you accept a gold coin in payment for your goods, you actually deliver the goods to the buyer; the transaction is as safe as simple barter. When you store your savings in the form of gold coins, they represent the goods which you have actually produced and which have gone to buy time for other producers, who will keep the productive process going, so that you’ll be able to trade your coins for goods any time you wish.

    “Egalitarianism and Inflation,”
    Philosophy: Who Needs It, 127

    Money cannot function as money, i.e., as a medium of exchange, unless it is backed by actual, unconsumed goods.

    Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNc-xhH8kkk&list=UUo4bDsRZPS_Nyljf7MR1ugg&index=6&feature=plcp[/quote]

    Watch this video then get back to me....
    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=/watch?v=dlPs10GSJjQ&v=dlPs10GSJjQ&gl=CA
     

  16. We have a responsibility to ourselves to impose term limits (not that they could never serve again but breaks between terms) we as voters have a responsibility to impose those limits they will not impose on themselves. Then there are those I do admire whom I don't mind being up there and holding a check on the radicals and the progressives. We must not allow the Cain attacks to succeed, we the citizenry must not allow personal lives outside of illegal activities to be allowed or tolerated by the media and Political activists. The Palin bashing and attacks against her and her children. Those things destroy our chance for the common man who wants a more streamlined simple Government to go to work for his fellow man for a short period in his life. Politicians should never be allowed to become a career. We have full evidence before us that a man out of the private sector cannot and will not go to DC and abide by the oath to the Constitution. We need to reject the TV anchor after anchor on network after network using the same key terms and words over and over again as if they are hypnotizing the population, and sometimes I think they are. I reject the talking points by pointing them out when they are used. We need to ask people the questions that require the guts to answer. If they take it from someone else, what will they require from you? for instance.
    How do you reject their manipulation of you? If someone uses talking points on you, what do you say? How do you counter? How turns the mood and conversation?
     
  17. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']

    Cannot watch it.[/quote]

    Lol just look up zeitgeist 3 on YouTube.
     
  18. [quote name='"fayn2madness"']

    We have a responsibility to ourselves to impose term limits (not that they could never serve again but breaks between terms) we as voters have a responsibility to impose those limits they will not impose on themselves. Then there are those I do admire whom I don't mind being up there and holding a check on the radicals and the progressives. We must not allow the Cain attacks to succeed, we the citizenry must not allow personal lives outside of illegal activities to be allowed or tolerated by the media and Political activists. The Palin bashing and attacks against her and her children. Those things destroy our chance for the common man who wants a more streamlined simple Government to go to work for his fellow man for a short period in his life. Politicians should never be allowed to become a career. We have full evidence before us that a man out of the private sector cannot and will not go to DC and abide by the oath to the Constitution. We need to reject the TV anchor after anchor on network after network using the same key terms and words over and over again as if they are hypnotizing the population, and sometimes I think they are. I reject the talking points by pointing them out when they are used. We need to ask people the questions that require the guts to answer. If they take it from someone else, what will they require from you? for instance.
    How do you reject their manipulation of you? If someone uses talking points on you, what do you say? How do you counter? How turns the mood and conversation?[/quote]

    You need to rewrite that im getting lost on what u mean, i don't wish to advocate a position if im unsure of it
     

  19. Wow such a response from so many a varied people's. Thankyou all this is what we are all needing, dialogue , ideas, action but we will have to move onto that...

    Faye I'm here, I've been snowed right under with the triples so as not being able to even update my emails, I'm here though and my support is here too

    C'mon people this is a good thing, throw your thoughts in and get the responses you probably wasn't looking for, see the other side, personally I think no matter what is done these bildeburg types will find ways round bringing in the measures of control, was 911 really caused by some fanatic in a cave or was it conspired, high up, to tear up the American constitution, get the people raging enough to give government whatever they desire to do as they damn please because my friends from that day forward the land of the free stopped being free( airport security, phone hacking, Internet monitoring ) the list is endless, we are all prisoners and the people that are free live in caves and barter for food and live a third world existence,

    This world we have created is far from free and it's getting worse each and every day, do something people, vote, use your voice, rally whatever but most importantly TALK..

    If messages are not relayed, no one will hear your thought if they are not spoken.
     

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