If words are only ever a symbol, a representation, of the ideas they point towards. Is it ever possible to use them to truly understand something outside the box?
Nope. Think I made a thread about this one day. Something about words only being here for communication. There would be no way to communicate something so great that it isn't even understood. There are no words to communicate things individually that we don't know about. That is, until we know about them. Words are just something inside of a toolbox. Can't even fathom this.......shitload of things within existence(for lack of a better word ha ha). The use of words would only be an addition to the awareness and abilities we have in our arsenal. After something is discovered through some other type of way(sight maybe?), we would then be able to use words to communicate what was discovered, and maybe get a better understanding by seeing others perspective
i sort of have a theory...that humanity first communicated mentally...like telepathically. words i.e. sound was used mainly to fire up the paradigm device, and as an act of worship, but for man to man communication, some type of mental imagery or sending and receiving of intentions was the primary form of communicating...some still have traces of it, some stronger than others...a few can still do it easily.
i think its wild how we have 26 letters, or symbols and put them togethsr to form sounds to communicate ideas and thoughts
now that is an interesting thing to say...not sure how much interest it is to you or will be to you, but hebrew legend says enoch invented the alphabet, and learned it from GOD, when God made the mark on cain's forehead so men would not kill cain. a mark on the forehead to represent something, was like the first letter/word in written form. hmmm...like an alphabet on the brain...
well, many things actually, only some may not be of interest to many here other than those in the faith or who are interested in biblical history... for example, it is always taught when i have heard it spoken on that it was some physical thing that prevent men from killing cain, you know, the mark GOD gave him...but now perhaps it was some mental thing, something that made cain to valuable to kill...and a few other things but besides that... the telepathic thing i spoke of in my first post in this thread...trying to figure out how they may have communicated certian things mentally....imagery would work most times but not all the time...so the thought of perhaps alphabetically came to mind is all...
Ah I see.. I think its just weird... anything I'm ever going to try and explain to you is confined to this: Aa-Bb-Cc-Dd-Ee-Ff-Gg-Hh-Ii-Jj-Kk-Ll-Mm-Nn-Oo-Pp-Qq-Rr-Ss-Tt-Uu-Vv-Ww-Xx-Yy-Zz like, a babies 'talk' is a "gah" or "goo" but we can create an onomonopia to explain the sound... idk lol
This is what makes communicating here so interesting. Scientists say that verbal communication only forms a small part of what we perceive when we interact with someone. The majority is body language and subtle, often subconscious signals. A forum removes all of these entirely, leaving only the words. Yet, communication not only still takes place, but perhaps on a higher level than it might do in the physical. I suggest that what these scientists refer to, is merely their way of explaining what I would describe as an energetic or quantum connection, possibly through the collective consciousness, although it doesn't need to be labelled in any way, that allows for a connection to be made which creates an almost telepathic or telempathic experience to take place. Many won't notice this going on, although the more sensitive are feeling it like this, even if they haven't previously needed to define it.
yes, yes...that was one i was looking for but could not remember...very important for proper communication, even with the imagery...that with imagery would really communicate most things. distance and material obstacles should not be a problem...perhaps some frequency jamming device should the frequency be found if it is one, could disrupt it though...atleast in it's transference.
Trying to find such a device would be pointless though, as the connection we make is not based in what we might call the material.
Pretty much what we're attempting to do here. It's something Entheogenic users do all the time. Experiencing things outside what some see as 'normal' consciousness, and attempt to reveal the extent of that experience to someone else. Because these experiences are so subjective, and also hard to define, bring back, etc, especially if one is using unmentionables, can the words we use to convey what we mean ever truly reflect what we're looking to say?
So you're asking if words alone can fully and accurately reproduce a subjective experience, including the entirety of the sensory data interpreted during that experience? No, I don't see how that is possible. Words carry meaning, and are useful in conveying meaning, but they are not completely accurate reproductions of what our senses process.
Agreed. So it would be necessary for there to be something else that is 'emitted' with the words, perhaps the real communicator for which words are merely a mind-made symbol, and it is this that one must become sensitive too in order to be able to truly understand someone.
you can explain ANYTHING with words. you just need a rich vocabulary, a deep understanding, and a lot of detail.
Explaining something and fully and accurately reproducing it in its entirety for another to experience through their own active senses is not the same thing, I'm afraid. For example: I can drop 5 hits of acid and then describe to you what I'm seeing, and feeling, and smelling, and tasting, and hearing. And this may give you a general idea about some of what I'm experiencing during my trip, but we cannot accurately say that you are thus experiencing what I am experiencing as a result.
[quote name='"Shade"'] Explaining something and fully and accurately reproducing it in its entirety for another to experience through their own active senses is not the same thing, I'm afraid. For example: I can drop 5 hits of acid and then describe to you what I'm seeing, and feeling, and smelling, and tasting, and hearing. And this may give you a general idea about some of what I'm experiencing during my trip, but we cannot accurately say that you are thus experiencing what I am experiencing as a result.[/quote] i didn't say you could.