Will religion bring about our own destruction?

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by ResearchIt, May 27, 2010.

  1. #1 ResearchIt, May 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2010
    Now it is not my intention to offend anyone, or tell you your religious beliefs are wrong. Nothing I will say is a lie. I will try my best to be objective, but I do feel emotional about this so excuse me if some leaks in. I will state things logically to the best of my abilities, and have taken a couple college level courses in religion, World Religions and Old Testament Survey to be specific.

    I will start by saying I was baptized and raised Catholic.

    I am now an atheist, and have quite a bit of contempt for the Catholic church (I will explain why.)

    Let me talk about why I think religion might destroy the world in the next century or so. I will make my point using a couple threats to humanity.

    The first is overpopulation. Yes, this is a real threat.

    The second is self fulfilling prophecy. This involves war.

    First, The human race multiplies exponentially with each generation, and our life spans are only getting longer. Many people do not even see this as a problem because many of us live in some of the greatest industrialized nations in the world. I.E. America and Canada. Lets face the facts. Most religions are against birth control and abortion. I.E. Catholicism and Islam.

    These religions control entire countries. I.E. The Catholic church controls Ireland and the Philippines. Birth control in Ireland is illegal, and in the Philippines there is a family planning service that offers free birth control to civilians. However, because the Philippines are inhabited by a population where the WIDE majority are catholic. The catholic church was able to help a very pro church president into power. Once in power he pulled almost all funding from the family planning service because the Catholic church believes birth control to be immoral. It is now more difficult to receive birth control in the Philippines because even the people who work at these clinics are told it is immoral by the church. On top of that civilians who are very religious are told not to use it by their priests, and as a result the Philippines has one of the highest infant death rates in the world. Why? because half the country is destitute and cannot afford to feed their children or medical care. This anti birth control parade is not only preached in foreign countries any where in the world where the Catholic church reaches, which is most of the world, they discourage the use of birth control and abortion. There is an even split of conservative and liberal supreme court justices. Some are openly opposed to abortion, if one more conservative justice appears on the bench, women could lose their right to terminate unwanted pregnancies. And what would be next? Birth control is my bet.

    Now why is this bad? According to the US Census Bureau about 4.17 births occur every second in the world the total deaths per second is 1.8. That means there is a net gain of 2.37 people a second. And remember this number will increase as the population of the world increases. While currently there is enough food to feed around 8 Billion people, despite that we let tons of people starve. In 2050 the population of the world is expected to be over 9 billion. And the amount of fertile soil is only decreasing. So i guess a billion people will have to starve. China for one has recognized this threat, which is why they have a 1 child per family regulation and provide birth control for all their citizens.

    Second, self fulfilling prophecy. You have probably heard it in the media and maybe even by word of mouth, unless you have been living under a rock. Many religious people believe that the apocalypse is near. Why? Because people believe signs written in Religious scriptures are popping up all around.

    Let us not focus on the signs, but their sources. All these scriptures, save some fundamentalist ones, were written before the age of modern science. Many of these scriptures have roots in the Old Testament. However, MOST of these if not all are very old. They have also been translated thousands if not millions of times, edited and rewritten thousands if not millions of times, by thousands if not millions of different people. After all the king of England once had it rewritten to give himself divine authority. And slave owners had bibles that stated that a slave must obey his master in order to reach heaven. These examples aside; how can anyone trust the bible as a credible source of information when it has "changed hands" so many times. Its like dough that has been handled by many many different people, kneaded many times, had many different, "miracle" ingredients added, and most of the world will still eat it.

    Many groups believe that the world will soon perish in flames, and in a world where missiles can carry many nuclear warheads and each nuclear warhead can destroy several miles radius, it is far too dangerous to take these very old books at face value. Remember these books were written before modern science, and it is probable that they were intended for people in that current time frame.

    We must also remember that these books were written by men, divinely inspired or not, not god. And one of the key things in major organized religions is man is fallible. If we do not realize this, or come to some sort of understanding we may very well have a self fulfilling prophecy on our hands.

    While many would say that no one would destroy the world so that their "Holy" scriptures can be correct, I would disagree. Look at all the atrocities that litter history that have the religious as a responsible party. Crusades (Were not nice things, thousands of people met their deaths just for being in Israel.), Colonization, Terrorist attacks, Suicide cults, etc... the list goes on and on.

    So I ask you, do you THINK religion will destroy us?

    Remember I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just presenting the information I have gathered in my last few years in college. Everything here has a source, 20/20 episodes, Frontline, Newspapers, Census bureau, etc... I am a skeptic by nature, and i deem these sources to be credible. Simple google searches can lead you to much of this information, however, remember that the internet has a lot of good information, and even more bad information.
  2. Yes! :D
  3. one word: yep.
  4. I really feel you on the overpopulation thing. I hate that religion teaches people that we are special and can do whatever the fuck we want to the earth.
  5. No... this is absurd and your arguments are lacking rationality.

    Overpopulation certainly will not destroy humanity. It maybe a problem in certain regions like third world nations. But of course these nations are starved mostly due the actions of wealthier nations. Atanyrate, even if billions starved to death, how could that possibly destroy the rest of humanity? "Starvation is the creation of the Devil."

    People have thought Armageddon was near since the New Testament was created... and surely many people have thought the world would end long before the Bible was written. Yet, "We are still here!"

    The most likely way humanity would destroy itself is through nuclear war. How many nukes does the Vatican have? How many nukes does the Dalai Lama have?

    I think your fear of religion destroying humanity is irrational and unfounded. If you want to point your finger, I'd start by looking at governments who have become far more powerful than any religion ever dreamed of.
  6. It's interesting that you bring up the government. Religion encourages irrational thinking, yet many people live their life according to whatever bullshit is in their religious text. Now, what government is more or less most powerful? The US government. And of the politicians currently governing the US, how many of them are Christian? Or rather, how many aren't?

    So there are people in control of WMDs who believe there was a global flood, a talking snake, a virgin birth. Things are looking awesome.
  7. i don't know, over population is a problem. anyone wanting to get a real look at how much the population grows by the second, should go to www.poodwaddle.com and check out a worldclock.

    it's no joke.
  8. Well, I trust in Obama's poise to not blow up the world over talking snakes. Do you really think he's that delusional?

    "Don't Panic"

    I have heard that in developed western nations, such as the US, it takes a couple to average having 2.33 children in order for population to increase. The US currently averages 1.8 children per couple... so in due time, our population will level off relative to immigration numbers. It seems women have more important things to do these days then just have babies. Or maybe they aren't interested in guys who think the world will end because the Pope believes in talking snakes. :laughing:

    I have also heard that the global population will level off around 9-10 billion which should make for a sustainable world especially regarding advancements in biological/genetic engineering (that is, agriculture and the such will become less necessary.)

    But still, overpopulation just means more hungry people... I doubt we will start eating each other. ;)
  9. #9 ResearchIt, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2010

    You sound angry. Overpopulation is a serious threat, maybe you should do some research. Actually 3rd world countries would probably have a better off time than industrialized nations, because the lack of food would keep their populations from increasing. When much of the world is starving they it will bring war for control of land that you can grow food on I didnt even mention the small amount of fresh water available in the world. by asking me how many nukes religious institutions have you obviously do not grasp what I am saying. Osama bin Laden who had or has many followers said that acquiring nuclear weapons is a religious duty for muslims. Irans president said they would wipe out the Israel. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ Israel has nukes and probably wont give Iran a chance to use them... We recently discovered underground facilities in Iran with thousands of centrifuges for creating fissionable material. America is allied with Israel. You dont know much about the world... All my arguments were not first stated by myself, all these issues were covered in my Social Problems class and there is quite a bit of literature on them... Ignorance strikes again. And on the subjects of governments, most governments are filled with a huge majority of religious people, except maybe China. I like how you picked the Dali Lama lol trying to curb the argument in your favor by mentioning the most peaceful religious leader. You should be looking at fundamentalist groups that are attempting to gain nuclear arms for use against "infidels". If America got nuked we wouldnt sit on our hands, we would retaliate. Obama may be reasonable but in the end he is a politician and politicians must save face when the American public is in outrage. The Catholic church has one of the most perverse histories of any religious institutions funny how nuclear war didnt make its way onto that new list of 7 deadly sins...
  10. #10 Perpetual Burn, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2010
    No anger here. :) You might have confused tough love with anger... it's like when your parents say, "We are not mad at you, we're just disappointed."

    Anyway, I am glad to hear that you do not think religion will destroy humanity... this is sensible.
  11. Religion itself will not destroy humanity, but it may lead us to destruction thats why it says will religion BRING about our own destruction, not religious institutions will get nukes and bomb everyone to bring the apocalypse
  12. #12 Perpetual Burn, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2010
    Just noticed your edit...

    Ahmadinejad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map or use nuclear force in any way. This is an intentional misinterpretation by western media outlets to stir up fear of the Iranian regime in order to justify the impending US/Israeli invasion of Iran. Ahmadinejad more accurately said he wanted Israel "removed from the pages of history," that is to say, he does not believe Israel should exist as a nation as it is a military occupation and a police state that has brought nothing but perpetual war on the people of Palestine. But of course this is exactly what Israel and the US want.

    It may come as a shock to you, but war is just a racket. It is a business and a big one at that. The Military Industrial Complex (MIC) makes loads more money off of the the taxpayers if they are at war. So, perpetual war is the result when a nation gives it's military free run and buys into propaganda that there is always an enemy. The enemy has been red, yellow, NAZI and now they are Muslim extremists. If you are at all familiar with US military history you will notice we have been at war non-stop since 1812 with the exception of a ~7 year break in between WWII and Korea... and in fact, this country was founded on war- the American Revolution.

    This is why Dr. Martin Luther King said, "The United States government is by far the greatest purveyor of evil in human history." Harsh, but true words from such a peaceful non-confrontational man.

    You are probably right that if the US was attacked with a nuclear weapon that we would retaliate with much greater nuclear force... but if we were truly run by Christians, there would be no such retaliation. "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."-Jesus

    But of course, we do not believe in turning the other cheek in America. You knock over two of our buildings, we knock over two of your nations. We have killed over a million Middle Easterners in this "War on Terror" over them killing 3,000 Americans. Eye for an eye... they only wish.
  13. an asteroid has a better chance at destroying us than religion sir
  14. Maybe not psychically but it still has emotionally. First off I'll start with my views, I believe in God, Heaven, Satan, and Hell. Nothing in between. Don't you see how religious people have their views? Fuck that one church wanted to stone a whale for attacking a trainer. Religion already HAS corrupted people, personally I think sins,bible, etc etc is all man-written. I would get punished for saying something like that. Yet I always had to go to church, I once told my aunt my views and she deemed me the anti-christ. So basically I was shunned out of family parties, because my views. I said I believed in God, but I wasn't welcomed in her house because I didn't have Christian beliefs. That IS corrupting. I was one of my aunts favorites, then when I told her the bible is man written she went insane. Like she didn't care about me for having differen't beliefs.

    Religion HAS corrupted us, maybe not destruction psychically. But I won't be damned if it does happen.
  15. uhhh negative....
  16. aw dude tough luck... Religious people can be crazy some times, there are studies that show once the brain has learned something it will fight to keep what it thinks its true. Your aunt obviously doesnt have many "christian" values if she shunned you over that. Aren't christians supposed to forgive?
  17. #17 ResearchIt, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2010
    Well most Americans even very religious ones dont follow the teachings of christ very well. If you read yourcatdead's post you can see a good example of that. An eye for an eye was hammurabis law and predates christ. Of course war is incredibly lucrative for governments and some businesses. While Iran may not want to use nuclear arms they are certainly being very sketchy about them, underground bunkers and all. Its not so much a matter of the intent in his statement but how Israel perceives it. If Israel believes Iran will attack them they would probably move to strike preemptively. If we were to invade iran i think many fundamentalists would spin it as an attack on muslims, and stir up a shit storm.
  18. I believe that is the Christian way. Forgiving. She's die hard Christian but disallowed me from going near her. Wasn't some like sad moment, I never really cared for her, to stuck up imo. But oh well. I was tired of dealing with my family's bullshit anyway. Always asking me shit like "how's the satanist life?" Or some stupid shit like that. I normally replied by saying "It's good we were just playing with a Ouija board and on Christmas we're gonna try to summon satan." Or some shit like that ya know?

    Fuck religion. Corrupts motherfuckers. But an example could be Muslims. God forbid anybody say anything about them or that person will be killed.
  19. Wowwwwwww your family is extreme. So do they classify anyone that doesnt believe in god as a satanist?
  20. 2029

    researchit daaaaawg

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