Wiktionary definition of fascism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Sir Elliot, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. Wiktionary defines the word fascism as follows:



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    A political regime, usually totalitarian...

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    ...ideologically based on centralized government...

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    ...government control of business...

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    repression of criticism or opposition
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    ...a leader cult...

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    ...and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. Too harsh? Too "right wing"? I just relayed the definition. Any conceptual linkages between the words and images are the responsibilities of the reader.​

     
  2. Spot on. Except it's pretty sad that your eyes are only opened tyo Obama's "regime." The true regime is the Federal Government. Has been every since they took military control of the nation in 1865. Everything you showed has been going on for a long time.
     

  3. but..

    ..there's none so blind as those who cannot see
     
  4. #4 TheDankery, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2010
    Err, if Obama was actually repressing criticism effectively, maybe people wouldn't even be able to say he's a fascist... Well, maybe he's just not very good at fascism yet.

    Any half-decent fascist would have silenced Glenn Beck, Rush, and other critics years ago. A quality fascist like a Hitler or a Stalin would have put them into forced labor camps before he even stepped foot in the oval office.

    Meh, Obama's a mediocre fascist. He can only hope to improve... dude has a lot on his plate right now ;)

    As far as totalitarian regimes go, this one is pretty lame.
     
  5. #5 Zylark, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2010
    14 Defining characteristics of fascism, and the US.

    Not all need to be fullfilled naturally for a government, party or ideology to be branded fascist, but a substancial majority do.

    I'll keep a tally. 0 for what do not fit, 0.5 where there is a tendency, and 1 where it fullfills entirely. And an accompanying short explanation for my verdict naturally.

    The US have always been a proud nation, and for good reason. Nationalism need not be a negative thing, on the contrary. The surge in displaying US flags after 9/11 I see more as a people reminding themselves of who they are and what that flag symbolize in contrast to those that attacked you.

    Other countries like Norway and Denmark are far more flag happy than the US. When there is reason to be proud of ones nation for the good it do and options and freedoms it provide, displaying it is not necessarily a bad thing.

    0.5 total 0.5

    Here there is a dissonans between citizens and non-citizens in the US. The US constitution pretty much gurantee most human rights to the US citizen, whilst foreigners may or may not be treated with the same dignity.

    0.5 total 1

    No such frenzy exist in the US. There is the war on terror (what a silly concept), but the ones constituting the threat have not been properly identified by the political correct establishment. The government is actually downplaying the common threat rather than try to whip up a frenzy over it.

    0 total 1

    The US never really demobilized after WW2. Sure, conscription was revoked, but military spending instead went into a cutting edge professional military with vast reserves of materiell should the situation arise that a new large army would be needed. As such, the US spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined. Even after the cold war ended, US military budgets have increased dramatically.

    1 total 2

    The US is a liberal society, where sexism isn't that much of an issue. Sure pockets of resistance to equality exist here and there, but not as government policy.

    0 total 2

    All media in the US is protected under the first amendment, no censorship exist. Most media naturally have a bias of one form or another, and most self-censor out of political correctness. But in this day and age when anyone can publish anything, I don't see this applying to the US at all.

    0 total 2

    Yes and no. Yes, the US is for good reason obsessed with national security. Beeing blindsided like on 9/11 is not an option. But it is hardly used as a motivational tool. At least not yet. Who knows if another serious attack happen, but until then...

    0.5 total 2.5

    The US is very much a secular state, and by law religion is not something government is allowed to dabble in, and vice-versa.

    0 total 2.5

    Nowhere in the western world is corporate and political interests as intertwined as in the US.

    1 total 3.5

    Nowhere in the western world are labour unions more suppressed than in the US. Though not illegal, unions are not encouraged, and a lot of regulative tripwires are laid out to prevent them.

    1 total 4.5

    Do not apply to the US at all. Quite the contrary. You have to search long and hard to find a more open society to art and expression than the US. Though, in the academia department, it is currently an uphill battle. But that is much a legacy of 12 years of anti-intellectual republican mismanagement.

    0 total 4.5

    Difficult one. The judiciary is curbed by constitutional rights, but the will to break those is not only clear but also abundant.

    0.5 total 5

    Cronyism was more a problem under Bush jr, less so under Obama. Even so, there is no denying the established elite taking care of their own, and the people left to pick up the tab. This is not flagrant outright policy, but more a shifty understanding between the political and financial sectors playing ball to their mutual personal benefit.

    0.5 total 5.5

    Again, a yes and no. The 2000 and 2004 US elections was not worthy of a nation that labels itself a democracy. Those were both unprecedented, and have not been repeated. But they are a fact, and can easily happen again.

    0.5 total 6

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    So 6 points, from me at least, out of a possible 14.

    As such, I would not brand the US as fascist, but there are fascist tendencies. Especially the power corporations have, and the enourmous military spending worry me. I'd say the US is already a plutocracy, but there is a ways to go before it is a fascist nepotist oligarchy.
     
  6. but but but Wikitionary sez...

    If one were living in a truly totalitarian, fascist regime, would one even be able to openly call the ruler totalitarian/fascist without fear of reprisal? I don't think so... you'd have to worry about secret police coming for you in the night or whatever. Obama is a pretty shitty fascist if he lets an entire news network and most of AM radio criticize him day in and day out without doing something about it.
     
  7. The way mussolini defines it, as corporatism, the US and Obama are definitely fascist.
     
  8. #8 Raoul Duke II, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2010


    Very good post, except I disagree with a few points and then also disagree that Fascism is only dictated by the "fourteen points" In fact, it is my firm opinion that any nation that does abide by the 14 points is destined for complete failure within a few decades and we've seen that within recent history. The 14 points are designed to only designate totalitarians as fascist, which is a false designation considering that it's easier to control 30,000 people through their bank accounts than it is one person with force.

    My regard towards facsism is that it is government control of both economic and political freedoms throught corporate division of powers.

    The totalitarian regard of it is, like with any form of government, something else entirely and on a different scale than facsism. The problem is that any successful fascist regime has discovered that the overt use of force is subservise to their own means. By having an "orderly" judicial system that is easily abused rather than an openly brutal, oppressive one the extent of government control extends past the superficial power of fear.


    The main point I'd l.ike to disagree with also is about the control of media. The sad fact is that every standard cable station has to abide by FCC regulations. Sounds fine and dandy, but to me every show I watch either seems like a prescription drug/alcohol commercial or a little government approved "The More You Know" moment. Either that or engrilling into people's minds that criminal law and judicial limits are only important when the suspect's not guilty. These arwe actually messages that the basics channels either by law or through special interst groups have to put in their shows.

    Seriously, just turn on any primetime cable show on the basic networrks, listen and you'll hear it. Just pay attention and you'll notice the actor's voice change: They'll sound like a prescription drug commercial doctor (not on accident either, but because they learned through studies that particular voice is most persuasive to their target persuadees be it the elderly, young, or umm...slow) and suddenly it'll sound like they're reading off a brochure. And it''ll happen about anything whether its drugs, sex, guns, or the US military. Propaganda isn't just a thing for Communist nations. We ARE masters of it.
     
  9. #9 AHuman, Jan 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2010

    Noun

    Singular
    fascism

    Plural
    usually uncountable; plural fascisms

    fascism (usually uncountable; plural fascisms)

    1. A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. Originally only applied (usually capitalized) to Benito Mussolini's Italy.

    There you go, THERE'S the Wiktionary definition unabridged and unaltered. Does the USA have totalitarian aspirations or exalt the state and religion above individual rights? Why don't you ask them? Or are you mortally afraid of 'repression' for your 'criticism or opposition'?
     
  10. Hey, man, he's just "relaying a definition" and showing us some cool Obama pictures. He's not trying to make a statement or nuthin ;)

    If this is "fascism", then America has been fascist for a very long time.
     
  11. #11 Raoul Duke II, Jan 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2010
    The problem is that people only see the "government" as who is in it at any given time rather than a free-flowing entity. We think this ay because of the over-bearing leader worship in out culture. Any news story has to be about the political "leaders" and their opinions and their actions rather than the representative views that should be present in a representative republic. By making an issue an "Obama" thing, "Bush" thing, or "Clinton" thing, the press gets to completely sidestep the awkward subject of the transferal of powers and the fact that any governement provision isn't just a temporary "plan" but rather permanant government power. A power that you can be damned sure the other party won't be willing to give up when they take power no matter how much they bitch about it when the other people hold it.

    In the words of Sean Hannity as I heard him myself one night responding to a conservative(I mean pretty much libertarian) caller. I'l try to look for the transcript: "I get it, you're the purist. The only person who wants freedom and limited power of government. Look, though, 'conservatism' needs to be a uniting call, but what we need to understand is that regardless of our plans for the future, we always need to work with and use the power we have to acheive them regardless what [that power] is."
     
  12. ^ Hmm, I would say that few, if any governments in the world would not qualify as fascist in at least one way, if we're going to go by the 14 defining characteristics of Fascism. Even if we only score 6 out of 14; that's 6 more fascist tendencies than we should have...


     
  13. Spot on! :hello:
     

  14. Why does a government need to repress dissent when they've already got most their citizens doing it for them? :rolleyes:
     
  15. For once I actually agree with Zylark. The U.S. is not fascist, but it is borderline IMO. (I would probably give a slightly higher rating)
     

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