As someone else said, misery loves company. Satan also suffers in Hell. He doesn't torture people, where did you get that. Hell was created as a place for people who don't accept God into their life. Satan didn't create it, God did. Satan USES people, but I've never heard of Satan torturing anyone.
As Trismegistus said, we need some verses talking about Satan. So much of western Christianity is fabricated fairy-tales that have no origin in the Bible. The snake in the garden of Eden wasn't Satan. Satan doesn't rule hell. Who is Satan? Define him. He's not Lucifer, that was a mortal king. Anyone?
This I gathered trying to avoid the redundancy of the four gospels telling the same message. You can resume your discussion now. Isaiah 66:22-24 22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” Matthew 10:28 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 13:41 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:41 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:46 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Mark 9:43-48 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] 45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] [c] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where “‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’[d] Footnotes: b. Mark 9:44 Some manuscripts include here the words of verse 48. c. Mark 9:46 Some manuscripts include here the words of verse 48. d. Mark 9:48 Isaiah 66:24 Luke 16:22-24 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ Revelation 14:9-11 9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 20:10 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 21:8 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Now read all of those in their actual meaning, with Satan/Devil meaning the illusive world of matter and sense desire. Likewise, eternal=false translation. Aionion is what it was translated from. Aidios is the word for eternal. I was checking the spelling and this was the first link, provides many good examples. Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal” It also has a few of the verses you quoted.
No, you. You realize that lots of people take those verses a lot more literally than you do, right? You asked. You received. No need to try and explain it away.
True. I pointed out a few that spoke of the devil, but most of the writing involves god himself. Which makes sense, if he's the alleged mastermind of this ridiculous scheme.
I asked for a verse that says that Satan tortures people in hell actually. It only says that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. Read in the meaning that Satan refers to the sense desires, it only claims that the sense desires bring suffering. The one even talks about the holy angels, I do not think the devil and demons would be described as holy angels, also I think we all know who "the Lamb" is. In reference to "the One" (note the capitalization), there is only 1 being who could annihilate the soul and this is an incredibly rare occurence. Hint: it is not the devil lol. Like all religions, not everything in holy texts are truths, they are written to steer mankind into a certain way of living, and fear of the unknown is one way of doing this. Even in scriptures that don't mention any kind of hell they still talk about certain consequences that won't necessarily happen just to encourage people to live noble lives.
Some believe that Satan is but another of God's angels, sent to Earth to tempt us in order to locate those of pure heart.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt Your labeling and shit talking detracts from the discussion, especially with a subject as abstract as this one. It helps to foster an environment that discourages open communication of ideas. I am a philosopher just so we're clear. Going by definition #1 1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct. Philosophy | Define Philosophy at Dictionary.com And again by definition #1 1. a person who offers views or theories on profound questions in ethics, metaphysics, logic, and other related fields. Philosopher | Define Philosopher at Dictionary.com Now some suffering is necessary of course but a whole lot of the suffering and negativity that people inflict on each other these days is over materialism and pettiness, its pointlessly misdirected energy. And if all of a sudden Hitler had a conscience, after all the horrible shit he did to people then he actually felt guilty about all of it... it's gotta sting a bit right?
So calling for citation is really just an excuse not to answer the question, isn't it? Stalling. No one can tell us what parts are true and what parts are lies. Otherwise, we have a contradiction on one hand describing a loving god and on the other directly accusing this same god of torturing his own creations infinitely for finite transgression. This, apparently, so that a technicality can be claimed that implication of the devil as the torturer of hell is false because literal words don't say so by a person who claims that the verse doesn't have a clearly literal meaning in the first place...
So you're saying he got kicked out of the clouds, swam through space to a large lava ball, swam inside and dubbed it hell, Then decided "Hey, now that I'm all set up, I'm going to watch people on Earth all fucking day and see which ones are headed my way. Can't wait." Dude. I think Satan (or whatever your idea of him is) has better things to do. Even if I was pissed as fuck I would only do it for like a month. Not eternity. How can anyone believe that crap. edit: I would also like to know how and who created god for any bible nerd out there. I would also like to know who created that guy as well. Until then, blow me.
The view of Satan being the pain-master of Hell is a little silly. There is nothing in the Bible that would suggest it. Hell is the devil's prison as much as it is a prison for smart people who reject stupidity. He doesn't punish anyone in hell, he is (or will be I should say) punished there himself. Or so says the fiction.
There are indeed people who could tell you which parts are legitimate. The achievement of God-Union yields the same knowledge to all who achieve it, and so you would have the same state as those who wrote the scriptures. Likewise, the invocation of whatever Deity, say you invoke God in the form of Krishna, would allow for the complete understanding of the Bhagavad Gita and Bhagavata Purana. But, I give up. It seems like I have to repeat myself every other thread in this section. I'll go back to letting you guys bicker amongst yourselves and retain myself only to those threads which specifically address spirituality and not theology.
If you're just gonna sigh and dismiss me, I wish you'd at least answer the question I posed in your "what if" thread. I know you think you can reach the same "state" as the people who wrote the scriptures (alive? religious?) but how can you know? What do you do if something above you confirms a different truth? What if one of the prophets came back and said the entire book is basically a bunch of falsehoods, maybe a few basic ideas are there but even those ideas are perverted? ^ I think that's a totally valid spirituality question that you've already ignored twice it seems.
Never said I was enlightened lol. And likewise in another thread I explained how I have 130 specific character flaws all written down. I don't claim to be some enlightened person, however I do know theory and what my teachers (who are enlightened and will have reached Henosis in another 5 years due to having reached it so many times) have told me,which I in turn like to share with those on here who might be searching for answers, but recognize that the new age movement is far to fluffy to be completely true. Achieving enlightenment is a semi-long process, and I am not very far into it. In fact, I believe that my kundalini has only just awakened as of 2 nights ago, though I am waiting for verification. That doesn't mean it has risen, and it has 6 centers up to go to reach gnosis, so I am nowhere close to that. It takes around 5 years after it awakens to rise into the solar plexus/heart center in which Illumination is achieved, and the effort to make it rise into the head to reach enlightenment is more difficult. Postal, if some "prophet" came back, I don't need to worry what they're message is. Various guru's give different messages depending on their system, because the young student needs something that will keep him on the path. The Kriya Master says that Kriya is the best path, and for it's followers it is, and it is likewise with other systems. I would continue to believe my Teachers unless they went on to prove themselves to be fraudulent, but seeing as nobody else who claims to be an authority has been able to back up their words (these people don't open their homes up to students, they hide behind text and screens) and that my Teachers have dispelled all doubt in a very objective way, I have no reason to go and listen to other teachers. I am provided with all that I need, and I am not going to go into the details, but my Teachers are associated with some of the very "prophets" who wrote holy texts (including Jesus the Man, before the Christ consciousness descended into him), and so their teachings are quite in line. They have proven it on only 1 occasion, so I do not need to question it. No, there was not some man claiming to be somebody who showed up, it was an occurence where 95% of the students saw this person clairvoyantly, and none of us yet have clairvoyance (though it can be temporarily activated, similar to a shakti pat in Yoga, and this is how it occurred). I already offered you the chance to realize the truth for yourself, but you are not willing to put in so much as 2 months of very minimal effort to find it, and so I am forced to believe you do not care about truth so much as you care about YOUR "truth" even if it is false.