lol yea, they're so harmless I'm sure my neighbors would be totally ok with me setting up a cruise missile launcher in my backyard. Guys, I'm just enforcing a no-fly zone over my property. No need for alarm.
What are we? Five pages in? And still I see no good argument for the US not having the big stick. So I suppose we all agree then. Better the US wielding it around, faults and all, than anyone else. Except Europe ofcourse, if only we could agree on the price of cheese first
I think the general counterargument is that there doesn't necessarily have to be a big stick at all. Does there?
Set your posts per page higher, I am only on page 2. There is a difference. Having a "big stick" and a good national defense is great if only used in DEFENSE. Example: a non-interventionist foreign policy. Being the aggressor, as the USA has been for decades, is entirely different as it is unconstitutional, illegal, and causes more harm than good. Permanent war economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Military–industrial complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia War of aggression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Aggressive War and Terrorism Are One and the Same! So Who Are the Real Terrorists? by Gary D. Barnett .... Just for fun, actually it disgusts me...since WWII how many countries have attacked us? Would none be accurate? ~165,000 US service members have died in US operations since WWII. That's fucked up. United States military casualties of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Who knows about the countless thousands/millions on the other side and the countless millions of civilians that have been collateral damage or causalities of our agressive wars. "This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together." - Dwight D. Eisenhower, General of the Army (five-star general) & President of the United States of America. “Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.” - Hermann Goering, Hitler’s Reich Marshall, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II.
I don't think that those most U.S. citizens like having their big sticks jerked around by a bunch of small stick nations. It's been 10 years, hen can we declare victory on the "War on Terror"? Big stick U.S.A going to have a miserable fate of blue balls after being jerked around so much
What doesn't serve US interests shouldn't be paid for by US taxpayers, and our "big stick" doesn't serve our interests.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaS2bRGS86c"]YouTube - George Carlin - We Like War[/ame] "We can't build a decent car, can't make a TV set or VCR worth a fuck, got no steel industry left, can't educate our young people, can't get health care to our old people, but we can bomb the shit out of your country alright!" ~QFT Imperialism is what causes problems. Might does not make right. The USA has no right to shove it's cock in a country's ass for it's own self-interest. I think America's track record is enough evidence to demonstrate that it should not have "a big stick". We waste American lives for no reason in conflicts caused by American foreign policy. Like Carlin said, we average a major war every 20 years. That's what happens when America has "a big stick". We get ourselves into problems which make enemies just want to attack us even more. We bomb countries, kill civilians, and then get indignant when someone hates us.
No one has really refuted your post line-by-line, because on it's face, it's ridiculous. We don't live in the Cold War era anymore, this 'big stick' non-sense, is just that; non-sense. This idea that we're somehow protecting our economic interests by defending our interests and waging war when people mess with those interests is the most self-defeating, hypocritical tripe I've ever heard. War is the most efficient way of destroying wealth--it operates much like any other Government redistribution of wealth. If our goal was to secure oil, ensuring cheaper oil prices, we've done the exact opposite by driving speculators crazy because of the inherent instability we've created in the Middle East. The only way your conception of 'big stick' foreign politics works, is if you are an autocratic regime, and you can forcibly send young men to war to die, against their will. In other words, in the 12th century. Wars are expensive on more levels than one, and even if protecting our interests enriched us with mineral resources, the costs far outweigh the benefits. Besides, there's far better ways to protect our economic interests. You might have heard of this concept. It's called TRADE. Yea, you know, voluntary co-operation. I'm sorry, but there's literally so much to say, and so little time for me to spell it out, that I have no motivation to do so. Wars are waged because there's a corporate incentive in doing so, the Military Industrial Complex, and the Permanent War Economy. If you think that selling massive amounts to weapons to places like Saudi Arabia, who then turn around and slaughter their civilians with the weapons we sold them, is somehow good for us, I can't help but question your sanity. We sell arms to pretty much every ally we have, and because these allies are installed with pro-US dictators, who sometimes go a little power crazy and murder their civilians in the street with the weapons we sold them, undoubtedly makes people hate us. I mean, my mind is reeling trying to come up with an argument to present to counter your own, but it's much like arguing with someone who has no conception of economics, and thinks that socialism is great. I have no idea where to start, because the delusion is so ingrained in these views. You might gain an ounce of credibility if you came out and at least condemned SOME actions of the US Government, but you seem intent on defending everything they do. I really have no words for you if you believe this. Don't mistake silence for agreeance. People (like myself) have other people to debate, or more information to learn, and would rather not go over first principles with those of us who are extremely deluded.
zylark, if you're saying there's a premise in which one entity will inevitably control the world's big stick, then I completely agree with you that it's best it's the US and sometimes Europe when they're not dillydaddling over silly things, that are controlling it. I think about that quite often ... it's just the notion that we're lucky to be living under the jurisdiction we're living in, for all the flaws it has. Here we are expressing ourselves freely, and it's true lots of people take that for granted.
Tell that to the Swedes who can do whatever the fuck they want, AND they don't have to 'defend' that freedom. They don't have to defend that freedom, because when they refuse to engage in anti-social behavior, like trying to force sovereign countries to submit to our domain, no one wants to put their heads on a stake. It's amazing how that works, right? Leave the world alone, but trade with them, and they'll leave you alone. Magic.
http://forum.grasscity.com/politics/809444-why-us-need-big-military-keep-using-2.html#post10496675 I responded to you like three days ago... Did you miss it?
I agree that we have to work with what we have to an extent, but that doesn't mean that we can't progress as a species eventually. There is no reason that a species as smart and capable of free thought as humans should have to remain so barbaric.
Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely I really don't understand why, because we are currently the wielder of the metaphorical "Big Stick" we're the good guys, or the "right" guys. I bet the same thing was said by the Roman people, and the Egyptians, the Nazis, the Soviets, the English, Aztecs, etcetera ad infinitum throughout history. Its a fallacious argument.