What would make you think that? I was just saying that it not happening or not is not the issue here... That concept of supernaturality came in from modern christianity... have you ever read the old testament? they even suggest that god was flawed and made mistakes... At the time of the beginning of the use of supernatural in the history of the church the common definition of natural extended basically to that which is of earth...or basically animals,plants, fish...etc...they belived and most still do in a place beyond what was the known world... called heaven..for example... So you are suggesting that you...an atheist...actually know what they believe? have you ever read the bible? the word supernatural isn't even in it once...and anything that is close to being synonymous occurs in the new testament... Because I would prefer that one uses an argument that might have some effect rather then that they spend their time blowing in the wind... your argument will do little to any theist, and is based on inaccurate ideas of what they believe... proving someone is wrong is easy enough if you assume the wrong ideas in the first place... I am agnostic myself...
I'd like to continue the discussion but I'm tired and am going to go smoke a cigg before I ht the sack...talk to ya tomorrow...
Then why did you state that the interest was in establishing common definition? The word supernatural didn't have to exist for things to be supernatural. Did I suggest that? You posited that they don't know what they believe in by calling them uneducated. And again, the word doesn't have to appear in the bible for the concept of their God to be, in and of itself, supernatural. And what's me being atheist have to do with it? Most atheists are ex-theists. You're speaking FOR theists while being agnostic? I don't think it's up to you to judge what kind of argument I use, anyway.
Because that was relevent, why are you asking me why about that? but you said supernatural things don't exist didn't you or you implied it I would think... regardless that is not how they have thought about things if you want to think that fine...but why don't you study the history of religion a little bit more... Not directly... but one's behavior regardless of intention can suggest all sorts of things... I was not sayingthey do not know what they believe in that is absurd and a rather devious attempt at a reductio ad absurdum argument in order to devalue what i said. I don't remember saying they were uneducated and if i did say something of the sort it was more along the lines of indicating that modern christians are often unfamilier with christian history. And your logic is reasonable to think that the word does not have to appear for the concept to be super natural... but my point was to try to show that that if you read the bible specifically the old testiment you would see that the christian idea has not always been such... further christianity is not the main conern as the primary concern is the general idea of god not the idea of some christians... there are i think thousands of differnt christian sects with different beliefs... and many other religions that have ideas of God in them and being "beyond existance" or "beyond that which is reality" or "beyond that which is physical reality" or "beyond what is natural" is not what is generally meant. While that is one of the definition it is not necessarily the primary one considered: su·per·nat·u·ral adj \ˌsü-pər-ˈna-chə-rəl, -ˈnach-rəl\ Definition of SUPERNATURAL 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit) You are not an ex-theist though are you? It not like I am making a final decision... And it is not exactly that i am speaking for theists... I am just irritated when someone tries to argue something not understanding what they are actually arguing against... If you start with an illogical definition of something it is easy enough to show it is illogical.
Because you made an assumption about what I was trying to get at and then started rambling about "common definitions" Did I really say that? Or are you making more assumptions? And now more about what I've studied about religions? Damn dude. You're on a roll. And contrary to your belief, most major religions of the world have supernatural aspects to them. This can easily be seen if you would just read a religious text. Any of them. So you're assuming... some more. You called modern christians uneducated. I really don't think you're qualified to speak on that. Mostly because it's more assumptions about them. Most theistic ideas are of beings that exist beyond laws. You can't take religious texts as literal. That's assumption. I am. It is exactly like that and I definitely understand what I'm arguing against considering I was raised in it. It's not illogical at all. Now if you'd like to continue the discussion, don't post a bunch of half-assed assumptions about what I'm saying or what I mean. If you can't discuss what I say at face value, then there's absolutely no reason to entertain any more posts from you.
That is a bit of an assumption... Everything is based on some sort of assumption...sometimes it is hard to know which ones to give credit to... But generally I assume that there is just as much likely hood that I am right as wrong about things...
well yeah? (based on the fact that DirtySix used the word assumption or a derivative of it 6 times in the post you were asking about i wasnt actually paying enough attention to know what he was referring to....just noticed the repetition) none of them give them no more credit then they deserve....call them what they are- whatever that may be... see....there you go again...
easy enough to say thats what you meant now see you assumed it would be funny (whatever you do dont take me too seriously) (whatever you do dont assume im being serious) Delenn is from the "religious cast" of her people (yes she is a made up character in a show) a religious cast that refers to their "g-d" as the universe...or perhaps it is referring to the universe as their "g-d"? "we are the universe trying to understand itself" [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJfbSPZ9wu4]The Wisdom of Delenn: Soul is a 'non-localised phenomenon' - YouTube[/ame] Delenn explains that all of life is like a candle, each flame is unique and precious. In desperate acts of ego, we give ourselves names and fight over lines on a map. But when it the candle goes out, it is lost forever. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihA4qZYWikw&feature=related]The Wisdom of Delenn: The Candle - YouTube[/ame]
you are assuming what i am assuming. Every moment a person is changing... every moment the candle is going out and becoming a new flame.