Why does nobody seem to care about freedom or liberty anymore??!?!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by SoundClown, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. #1 SoundClown, Sep 21, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    You can't go anywhere without a passport, the government is buying confidential client information from ISP's, drugs are criminalized, people who contribute to society are taxed more, you can't fish without a licence, you can't drink or smoke until you're 21, you have to go to school until you're 18, you can't own an automatic gun, the NSA, FBI, and CIA can literally tap into any smartphone/smartTV and eavesdrop on any citizen they please. The list goes on and on. And nobody seems to give a shit. More people would rather bitch about nonexistent microagressions and hate speech. If we could use the same amount of passion that most liberals possess and aim it towards the REAL enemy, we wouldn't face most of the problems that are causing our country to slowly turn into a 1984 like shithole. Our slave owning founding fathers would be ashamed. What are your' guys' thoughts?
     
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  2. I blame the public schooling, social media culture and American Exceptionalism.
     
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  3. What this country needs are more free fire zones.
     
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  4. Our present-day definition of freedom is more of a double-edged sword.

    For example.. 'Freedom' for giant corporations, in the form of tax-cuts, etc. - could very well mean 'Slavery' for the working class who struggle to feed their families and just can't get ahead because simply put, you need money to survive.. you even need money to make money.. and it's gonna get even harder to make more money for the average individual because the cost of human labor is constantly decreasing due to automation.

    Think about how hard it is to even get a loan of $10,000 just for a startup. Think of the owners of the properties we rent, the owners of the supermarkets that we buy our groceries from, the very supermarkets that keep people employed.. which will eventually be fully automated (i.e. Amazon Go).

    ..Speaking of properties, there's only a limited amount of land available on Earth, and those who already own property in the present day are really, really lucky.. considering how 100-200 years from now or so, only 1-5% of the population will be able to afford to own property.. because the supply of land will always be limited, you cannot create more land than what is already provided by nature, unless you colonize the oceans with floating platforms or something, or cut down all of the world's forests and bulldoze the national parks.

    Basically, sooner or later, automation, globalization, population growth, etc. means that the wealth gap between those who own the land, the means of production (upper class) .. and those who rely on them to survive (lower class folks).. will be so massive, that riots will ensue .. and we will have no choice but to introduce social safety nets such as a Universal Basic Income in order for humanity to survive, which would have to be paid for by forcefully taxing the wealthy.

    There's welfare, sure .. but it's a pretty corrupt system that many people take advantage of.. and produces so much waste by creating hundreds of thousands of unnecessary government jobs JUST to control the lives of welfare recipients.

    Part of the reason UBI is becoming more popular is because, frankly, the number of welfare recipients is rising.. employed or unemployed. A job just is barely enough to survive anymore, and speaking of freedom .. not having any money is a HUGE barrier to living free!

    Automation is actually different this time. It used to be that farmers would become factory workers, factory workers became office workers, office workers became engineers and programmers, etc. Not anymore - sooner or later, even programmers will be replaced by AI. Human services will become obsolete except for areas like entertainment .. entertainment ..... reproduction (oops, I forgot about artificial wombs!)..... and .... .... more entertainment.

    So yes, I could very well agree with pretty much every single Libertarian position, except the idea that 'taxation is theft'. Taxation is simply a way to ensure that resources are distributed evenly enough to ensure the survival of our species. It's not the same as socialism - socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production. Taxation is the taxation of the means of production. Keep taxes as low as possible and use it to fund the basic necessities of life, so that free markets and capitalism can continue to benefit us till the end of the century.
     
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  5. Anyhow .. my definition of freedom is: Being able to do things that you want to do.

    However, sometimes being able to do things you want to do can come at the expense of other people's capacity to do the things that they want to do.. because resources are limited. If I live in a house of 20 people in the countryside and we all have 2gb of broadband data available per month .. I can't just go on a netflix binge and watch whatever I want.. because then the people who also use the data, have nothing left to surf the internet with.. so that means that my freedom, is limiting their freedom!
     
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  6. #6 AugustWest, Sep 22, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
    We do not need freedom or liberty because terrorists.
     
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  7. Decades of government propaganda, "patriotism", nationalism, collectivism and indoctrination of our children in state run schools.

    When my daughter is old enough to understand I'll teach her to sit for the national anthem, don't put your hand over your heart and never recite that mindless pledge of allegiance to the slave masters.
     
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  8. Because we can't have rights when the big scary Nazis/Muslims are after us. We should instead become exactly what we oppose about them.

    Or at least that's the vibe I'm getting. If these are important to you, the big 2 parties have nothing to offer but fear.

    "Those who would choose security over freedom deserve neither" -- Ben Franklin
     
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  9. old man.jpg
     
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  10. That's not a very healthy way to look at the idea of a nation. A nation isn't the same thing as the government of said nation. I'll sit down and bitch about the evils of big government with you any day of the week, but that's not the same thing as saying my country is evil.
     
  11. one way to answer your question:
    notice the kind of people who responded--
    ones who gave you well thought out answers and took the time to write
    vs
    the ones who gave you meaningless, vague one lined answers and attacked the question...
     
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  12. I think OP brings up an interesting point.

    The "freedom and liberty" train was trendy some years ago when Ron Paul was relevant and that nasty liberal Obama was in the oval office. In reality a significant portion of these "libertarians" who rode RP's dick were closeted republicans. They were not so much for "freedom and liberty" and "against the two part system" as much as they just hated liberals above all else. With conservatives now controlling all three branches of government, they like what they see, and so the "freedom and liberty" train has stalled. They know they can't play that card anymore as they cheer on Trump's hatred for Obama, his increases in military spending, our flirting with nuclear disaster with North Korea, and other policies. To oppose any current republican policies might reveal, at least in part, a partial alignment with the ideals and logic of a liberal or Obama supporter. This cannot be tolerated in the current partisan climate. And this is in large part why I no longer consider myself a libertarian. The majority of the movement was a farce.
     
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  13. IPhones
    Selfies
    Bar scene
    Tv

    It's what the majority wants
     
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  14. I was serving beer at a country music festival one time (wanted to shove pencils in my ears for 6 hours) and I was sitting for the pledge/anthem. Didn't plan on it. I was already sitting down drinking a free beer, I wasn't about to stand up for it. I got some good looks lol. Some people didn't care, other people really cared, but nobody said shit. Probably because I was in charge of
     
  15. Now, I love country music, I'm listening to it right now, but I can imagine catching some flack there. I went to a libertarian convention a few years ago whenever I was one, before I stopped making excuses for evil and went AnCap. They stood and covered their hearts and I stayed in my seat. I got some stink eye.
    If anyone has the balls to say something to me about it I roll up my sleeve, show them my USMC tattoo and tell them to fuck off and I earned my right to my freedom since, according to that line of thinking, I "served" to protect it.
     
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  16. You can own a fully auto machine gun you just have to get a licence to have it.
     
  17. Which is tyranny and total bullshit. The licence part.
     
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  18. I agree. What we should do is stop paying federal taxes and I mean everyone that way they know who's boss. The problem I think is the generation coming up generations of pussys,we can't have that statue it offends me we can't have that it bothers me, I want more money I deserve it, don't look at me like that or I'll tell. Stop bullying me your hurting my feelings.
     
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  19. People just want things handed to them. Welfare state = no longer a free state if you have problems call your congressmen if they can't help you take it into your own hands.
     
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  20. Why didn't those "libertarians" just support Romney or McCain if they were closet Republicans anyway?
     
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