okay, I read it wrong, but is it not what you were getting at at first? Be honest. You make a poll with a handful of options, like it\'s got the right one in there or something. Not a single one of those alone is the reason the war started. It sounds like you\'re trying to make the world sound much less complex than it is. I\'m sure if you knew 1% of the things our president does about the world in general you would TOTALLY change your mind about how things must be run. Security is a very important thing this day and age, and some things must be sacrificed, unfortunately, to help us achieve this security, atleast partially. I already know you must think I\'m an appathetic drone willing to to take whatever comes my way without a fight, but that would be incorrect. Making polls on the internet won\'t do anything to change policy, so if you\'re so concerned about the topic maybe you need to post less and protest more etc. Not saying posting a lot is bad at all, but not if you keep ragging on Americans etc for letting things just happen without a fight.
You know what the funny part of this whole thing is? Don\"t get me wrong or anything, i love my country and all but back in the 40s and 50s America was trying they\"re hardest to stop communist from spreading to other countrys in the world but now in the war in Iraq we are forcing those people to start a new government, democracy, our own government system over there. We really need to stop being the police of the world.
I will say this, The actual problem started Before Bush Sr. I understand there arte a lot of Anti Bush people around, and that\'s fine, but if you\'re going to care about the situation, at least do some research on it first. Dont just mouth off about what you think or what someone else (probably from tv) told you. We are not over there for Oil, if we were we wouldn\'t be paying almost $2 a gallon right now. Dispite what some news stations are telling us, we are doing Wonderful things for the Iraqi people. The only ones who dont want us there are the extreemists, of course those are also the ones who are bombing our soldiers, so they are the ones who get put on the 5 oclock news. I listened to the ambassodor of Iraq today say how grateful her countrymen are to have help from the US because they have been trying in vain for many years to get Saddam out of control, and each time it ended up in Massive man hunts and killings. In 1996 over 200,000 people were hunted down and killed for plots on getting Saddam out of power. Every couple of days they are finding new Mass graves filled with women children and men who all may or may not have been trying to plan a way to get freedom. So anyone who says it\'s for Oil is a fool, and needs to get away from the TV and into the REAL world. I\'m not going to say that the Bush\'s have been perfect, in many ways they ahve not, but they have given that country something it could never give its self.. Freedom, the ability to choose! As for 9/11 they had been after the twin towers for years, infact ten years prior to 9/11 they had tried to bomb it. Anyone remember that? or did you conviently forget? And we are not trying to force our way of life on other countries, we are giving them the option which is more than they have EVER had. Again saying we\'re trying to force them is so ignorant and dellusioned. Anyone who knows anything about the REAL situation over there knows that... Unfortunatly as Dale Carnegie said: \"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.\" Maybe some people should do alittle more research before they post? WLF I wold like to say I forgot to mention this, the was was started because of Israel. Simple as that, it was stated the first time they attacked the trade center. This is a site that while can be considered comical this man has wonderful insight and understanding of the REAL situation.. Not just what the government and the press want you to think. If you\'re really interested, read it, you might be surprised. http://www.datejesus.com/sermons/midnight/
I\'m not sure what you mean by \"who started the war on freedom\", but as to who sent Osama on a jihad, I\'d have to say the CIA. They trained many terrorists, I\'m sorry, at the time they were \'freedom fighters\', in the middle east to fight off the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan. We trained them to fight a religious war against foreign intruders on their soil. They did. The Soviets left, at which point these \'freedom fighters\' saw another foreign intruder on their own soil, the holy soil of Saudi Arabia. They did exactly what we trained and funded them (Osama bin Laden being one of \'them\') to do, except it backfired against us. And the minute they attack us in the exact same fashion they attack the Soviets, poof, the \'freedom fighters\' become \'terrorists\'.
Its funny how 20 people have said that Bush started the \"war\" (its technically not a war until Congress says it is) even though Osama\'s planning for all of this started before Bush even thought about running for the presidency. We did start this shit, technically. By exsisting we started it.... by doing what we do we pissed them off and then went after us. I\'m glad they did... this country is going to shit.
Thats a good point torchy. We trained them to fight the soviets, and now they are fighting us. Big, Big drawback of fighting a cold war type war, where we pick allies based on who doesnt like our enemy. The enemy of our enemy is our friend. Who started the war? Well, War was declared on us in 1995. We were attacked before that, by a group sharing the same mentality. We are figting an idea, not one nation. I hear all the time here \"fuck those arabs\" and things of that nature, when it isnt even the arabs were fighting, it isnt even islam. It is a small group of \"religious extremest\" who are basicly fighting us for 2 reasons. Frist, and i think the reason that started it, we are friends with the jews. We are in the middle of the holy war. The second is that we are developing western style governments in their lands. I have read arguments for and against the war, i checked out a booko recently on the US forign policy against rouge nations. It is a collection of articals both for and against war, and our policies in general. Here is what i think: We are under attack. They attacked the WTC twice, we have been attacked abroad a number of times. I think going into Afganistan the way we did after 9/11 was good, but i dont agree with Bush letting them handle capturing Bin Laden. He attacked us, and i think we should have had the best trained soliders in the world on the ground and hunting him down. We have done alot with Afganistan, held elections, while i dont think we have forgot about bin laden, and i dont know all the secret agents and spies and everything we have going on, but i would like to see an effort to catch him. That being said, one of my biggest problems with Clinton was his soft stance on this issue. He knew of the problem, he knew it was growing, he also had chances to capture him. IMO, he let the problem grow knowing it wasnt going to be his problem much longer. On to Iraq. Following 9/11, we were faced in a kind of new cold war. We are fighting a mentality, an idea, and we are fighting anyone who has or helps to further the idea. At the time, the evidence shows him to have WMDs, he used them before, and we did not want him to use or distribute them. We goin, overthrow him, and we dont find what we are looking for. We dont find a huge stockpile marked \"WMDS\". We find some viles of different gases, we find shells of different things, but never the jackpot we were looking for. We did, like WaterLilly said, find a huge violation of human rights and brutality. A big argument against the war now is the iraqis who are dieing now are innocent, and they are. But they are dieing in the effort to better them, not being killed for speaking out against a government. We also stopped the oil for food scheme in which we found out saddam was using different countries with veto votes in the UN to his advantage and was spending the money, lets just say not on his people who are dieing. All in all, i think we are doing a good thing. It has many motives, some not very popular. I think anyone will agree oil has something to do, but it isnt why we went. We went, i think, at first to stop saddam from using weapons we thought he had. I dont think you can/should use hindsight to judge this a success or failure. To do so, you have to spread the blame around, to the intelligence agencies, to our allies, to alot of people i dont see it being spread. This war has turned into nothing more than another political issue that is dividing the country, and now the world.
hmmmmm. America started the war in 1776 huh? By fighting for our own freedom, we caused people 225 years later to attack us. I cant follow your logic on that one. All i get from that is America is the problem, it is all Americas fault, which i imagine is exactly what you ment. Damn our fore fathers. I think the lovers of freedom are passing all the blame on Bush. Bush recieved bad intelligence. I think to blame him, you have to equally blame Russia and the UK, seeing as we acted on alot of their intelligence. You should also blame congress, who voted to take action. Even Kerry voted to go to war, based on the evidence at the time. That was before he voted against it i believe. If you are against the war, that is fine. Everyone isnt going to agree on everything. But i think the self proclamed lovers of freedom are throwing bush under the bus. Blaming him for acting on bad intelligence and using hindsight to say we shouldnt have went is wrong. But i know none of you will admit that. It is 100% Bush\'s fault, after all, thats what spinning a story is. You use it to your advantage. If it makes him look bad, pass all the blame you can on him. Isnt that right? Bush made up the intelligence, he faked the bombings of our WTC, he could even be osama bin laden. Haha. In all brutal honesty, Clinton should have solved the problem instead of leaving it, but that would ruin his likeable legacy, and he wouldnt want to ruin that. A poll drivin president only does what will gain him popularity. Even if its running 2 times on a big middle class tax cut that never, never came......... Why make the bring the problem up when he cant pass it off to the next president. Alot like he did with the recession..........
Well, the zionist movement started in ..I think the 40\'s a lot of prominent senators, and justices happened to be jewish and used their influence to help the jews take back their holy land. Had we not helped them, they more than likely would have been wiped out, COMPLETELY!! There would be no jews anymore. \"America started the war. It was started in 1776.\" DUDE, shut the fuck up! Why don\'t you at least put SOME thought in your post?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html http://azplace.net/index.php?itemid=165&catid=19 http://www.minersadvice.co.uk/yourview9_bushs_secret.htm Bush may well be a moron but the people who pull his strings aren\'t , plus the history of support for people like Hitler and Saddam sort of undermines the protests of those who believe Bush and his cronies to be innocents in this whole mess. Add to this the exploitation of third world countries by US business and the US goverment and you have a recipe for disaster , does America believe it can stick it\'s nose in where it isn\'t wanted without the risk of getting said nose bloodied?? The Vietnamese showed that US forces were amatuers when confronted by geurilla tactics and a home ground advantage , this war is not about freedom it\'s about ownership and backscratching.
accually, we could have easily beat the vietnamese, we killed alot more of them than they did of us. The war was lost at home, and i hope this one isnt going to end up the same way, but i fear it will.
Why do Americans celebrate defeat??? The Alamo ! Pearl Harbour ! Vietnam !! That aside what about the rest of the post or was it too difficult to answer , tell me how the goverment is totaly free and how big business has no control or influence in US foreign policy. What??? You can\'t. Oh well. What about the business interests of Bush and the current war , what about the fact that ever more draconian regulations are being imposed on the American people ???????? I await your response with curiosity.
Chill dude. No offense, but what the hell are you asking me to answer your questions for. All i said was we lost the vietnam war at home, and i dont think you could deny that. We had the firepower to win the war. If i had anything else to say, i would have said it. Hell, your answering questions for me. I actually agree with you, while i dont think business is the only reason we are there, i think it plays some part. Iraq has oil, we use oil, but we are still paying alot for gas, so i dont think that was the only, or main reason we went. But to be fair, Saddam shares the same anti american, radical islamic mentality as out attackers on 9/11 did, he has developed and used WMDs, we went in to stop him from using or distributing weapons we THOUGHT he had. We went in to stop the humanitarian crisis in Iraq. We went in to set up a stable pro american government in a part of the world that hates us. We went in because were friends with the Jews. I guess that wouldnt help your anti bush agenda, so your downplay all of that. I think a part of the reason we were attacked is because of our policies we impose on them, but they attacked us in 1993, and stated it is because of our policies reguarding the Jews. There is no 1 reason we are there, there is no 1 reason we were attacked. Spin it how you want, stress the fact theyhave oil, but so far their oil isnt helping us. This is a complex subject, there are more than one reason we are there. Can Ya Dig? Edit: i just read the topic, and do the 22 people who said bush started the jihad realize he was the governor of Texas when this jihad was started? Or are you so blind by your hatred, so wrapped up in your loathing of him that you just blame him for everything? We were attacked over 10 years ago, before bush even thought of running. Do you actualy realize that? I mean come on.!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess osama is a mind reader, and knew he would hatebush, so he decided to have some plans ready. I didnt see Clinton as a choice, even though he was president when it started, and he let the problem manafest into the problem it is today. Jesus, you 22 people, your bias is making me sick. Pull your heads out of the sand, out of micheal moore\'s ass, and realize the problem started before 2000!!!!
Maybe not the only reason, but it\'s more of a reason the \"freedom\". ANd our gas is NOT expensive! Look at the rest of the world! But to be honest, with the dollar reaching new lows everything commodity will be going up up up! But I am with you on one thing Gilligan - it all needs to change!
That doesnt validate an idiotic response. I dont see how him visiting there will make your post sit any better with him or myself. Yea, i dont think there is anyone here that doesnt think there should be a change. A major change.
We shouldnt have gone to Iraq to begin with. There was no intelligence and no threat. At all. None. After two and a half years, we still havent found those oh-so-abundent WMDs that Bush claimed Saddam had, which he clearly didnt. Saddam and that country posed no threat to us. They never did. \"War is the coward\'s escape from the problems of peace.\" --William Sloane Coffin Jr.