I have thought long and hard about the whole religion and God issue. I have read a lot of crap on it, and a lot of reasonable arguments both ways. The conclusion I have come up with for the atheist/theist argument is -what is the point?- It might be fun to argue sometimes, but its not usually good when it comes to the issue of religion. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and should not be judged, unless it hurts the opinions or bodies of other people. People are dying all over the world because of differences in opinions pertaining to religion (Jihad, which means "Holy War", is what Osama declared on us recently). And whats the point? Arguing is not going to change peoples opinions (for the most part). Arguing does no good. Education does good. People should be educated about all different types of religion from an unbiased source at an age the allows them to make their own decisions with out the pressure of parents (though that will always exist). Sure its fine to argue here in a post, but some things said might offend people, so just pack a bowl and its all good...
alot of views. all i can agree with to a point. but skunkybbop is right, i'm ripped and losin train of thought here. i certainly don't know all my facts. but what i do know is that what i believe, and trust is true. no facts or proof. just pure mind, heart and soul. and it is a great feeling...... but back to skunkybbops religion~i'm in.
I have thought long and hard about the whole religion and God issue. I have read a lot of crap on it, and a lot of reasonable arguments both ways. The conclusion I have come up with for the atheist/theist argument is -what is the point?- It might be fun to argue sometimes, but its not usually good when it comes to the issue of religion. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and should not be judged, unless it hurts the opinions or bodies of other people. People are dying all over the world because of differences in opinions pertaining to religion (Jihad, which means "Holy War", is what Osama declared on us recently). And whats the point? Arguing is not going to change peoples opinions (for the most part). Arguing does no good. Education does good. People should be educated about all different types of religion from an unbiased source at an age the allows them to make their own decisions with out the pressure of parents (though that will always exist). Sure its fine to argue here in a post, but some things said might offend people, so just pack a bowl and its all good...
You fucking Christians, you are all the same. So many of you believe you've got the whole thing figured out. It's all spelt out for you isn't it? In a ten thousand year old book collection. A book collection dictated by God himself, hand carved onto ten slabs of solid stone by Moses, (that really old bloke) and handed down through thousands of generations of some fairly clever primates, who still find themselves struggling with coming to terms with suddenly being called into existence with no apparent explanation as to why, and thrown into a life of which he is fully aware and able to question. It's incredible to think it took the conscious effort of whole civilizations to deliver the Torah to us in a condition identical to the version inscribed into the slabs of stone. (Imagine how many copy's of the original text their civilizations must had to have made in order to insure someone, somewhere would have an accurate copy eight to ten thousand years later.) After all that trouble all those people went to in order that all mankind may read a copy of the books that had kept their society on the straight and narrow and thus helped insure their survival through what must have been difficult times. And after all that, along come you fucking Christians. Armed with a copy of the Torah which had been translated, from a translation of a translation and an arrogance such of the like you'd expect from a bunch of idiots willing to base their whole system of belief on the words of a man who recited a paragraph or two from his translation of a translation of a translation, and then proceeded to say aloud "I think what God meant to say, (personally I have never been that confident), take whatever interpretation modern language will allow you to comfortably process, and then preach to the masses in a way least likely to conflict with what current social attitude exists. This allows you to bend what was original a set of rules and laws designed to govern a people who lived at least eight thousand years ago and sell it to a modern population of mindless morons who think that the church is mankind best possible chance for landing a man on Mars. Can't you people be happy with what you have. I mean, you exist don't you. right here, right now you are aware that you exist, correct? If like me you are aware of your own existence, then I am forced to ask you the question. What more do you lot want out of this? I am expecting answers to this one..
Hey Stunty some of things u said make sense. But you have no right to talk down on Christians like you did. Personally I am not a Christian, but I believe in people's rights to their own opinions. You cannot know for sure who is correct. All you have is an educated opinion. You have no hardcore proof. Neither do the Christians. You sound like you have read up on the subject of religion a bit, as I have, but no one will listen to your opnions if you talk down on other peoples beliefs. What do you think your mother meant when she said "treat others as you would like to be treated"? By posting your opinion I'm assuming that you want others to read it and ponder your ideas. If you are rude and inconsiderate dont expect even those who believe the same stuff to take your opinion with a grain of salt. Just keep that in mind for next time...
well first of all ~wtf asshole?! i'm going to try and be civil here. you know what? i'm too stoned to care about how u feel about us christians.and i really don't feel like answering any of your questions.i take a huge offence to your post and so screw you. yeah. that's about it.
sry fortwunny, i was so upset over that post! i forgot to say thank~you for standing up. i thought it was really nice of you....
You know what, that's the kind of reply I'd expect. Firstly, I would like you all to know that I have a sense of humor. Secondly, why do I feel you missed the point. I don't know, it's kind of funny watching you all run round to defend something you know nothing about. Personally I find atheism equally as ridiculous as Christianity. Your alive aren't you, what more fucking proof do you need? Sorry if I offended anyone but I can't help but feel that the finger on the button labeled 'DOOM' will belong to an idiot who says things like, "You can't go around saying that". Why can't I say what I actually feel. If any Christians out there really didn't give a toss about what I put in that post I want you to know you have my respect. For the rest of you you should be ashamed of yourselves. You can't see it but you are as ignorant as the atheists. You are all shinning beams of life. You feel, think, care about other peoples happiness, laugh and cry, and hurt when you lose somebody you love. When are you going to learn, you don't need the middle man in order to understand what this existence is all about.
I too, as the original post asks wonder...what draws an aethiest to a place like this? Why would they get so angry over something that doesn't exist? I was drawn here because I love to think about God and His relationship to me and to the world around me. I love to meditate on things we can't possibly 'know'! I think it is so interesting to ponder the existance of God and to hear all the intelligent commentaries that were here presented. Truly I am impressed with the minds of you on this board! The first offensive post was Stunty, but he redeemed himself. I so totally agree that we are ALL entitled to our own opinions. We are all walking in our own shoes. No one can really understand what we've all been through or what our future holds. So let's not judge! This place to me is to give me a break from the troubles of my day to day existence. This gives me something to think about instead of what's going on in my day to day existence. Keeps me from saying some things I shouldn't. You know that was a key for me in business. It gives you a whole new perspective. Here is my personal opinion of the whole thing. I, personally, believe that there is a Supreme being. And yes, I believe we were created in His image. I believe he is all powerful. I believe that science was created by Him in order to create the world. Perhaps like was so wonderfully described here. All the mysteries that we can't explain were created so we never 'really' can understand it all. That's why you never 'really' can't prove he does or does not exist. I believe the bible is the Word of God. I believe that the true joy and peace of the Lord is worth my life. I will not give it up. I must admit I am a "paranormal fundamentalist". I would love to learn more about what "supernatural consolation." ...IS?????? I'm wondering if they are right about what makes me this way. I believe there is a devil. That he is evil. I believe that GOD IS LOVE! I believe that everything that is love is God. Everything that is not love is 'not' God! I believe religion is of the devil. I believe in the gathering together of believers. That's what this is for me. I believe in the power of prayer! Like the original post asked at the beginning who can honestly say there is not a God. Not me! And by the way I have seen a glass move. The only thing is you have to ask in faith with a pure heart. Faith is what pleases God. When I walk in faith...it produces peace and joy in my life, and it pleases Him. Sounds like a win, win to me!!! Peace
Well I guess I will weigh in on this subject.... I personally believe that there is a God, yet He/She is nothing like what we humans think God is like. IMO, God is like a big ball of pure energy, light if you will..... now, at some point God wanted to know himself/herself, but being God, being the ALL, that was quiet difficult, because you cannot know what you are, until you know what you are not. So to rectify the situation, God "split" itself into an infinate amount of "Godstuff" (that would be me, you, and everything living thing on earth)..... In essence, I believe that we are all God, as we are here to allow God to experience things through us. If you clear your mind, calm your body.... and just listen.... you can many times hear the whisper of God in your ear.... or feel the kiss of God upon your skin as the wind rushes by..... or see God in the eyes of an animal or child. As to the spiritual part of it..... I believe in the supernatural powers of God, and I believe that each of us has the ability to re-member how to use the supernatural powers that are inside all of us. For instance, when you grow close to another person, many times you learn to anticipate what they are thinking.... know what they will say before they say it.... ect. Now, many people would chalk that up to just learned knowledge about your friend.... however, I have "freaked" people out on many an occassion, because I possess the power to understand, deeply understand, whatever pain it is that is occurring to my friend at that moment. I have the power to take some of thier pain into myself, giving them a bit of relief. And, I beleive that we all have the ability to do that, but we have to KNOW that we can, and we have to be willing to love another person as equally as we love ourselves, our car, our house, or even our family. That is what we are here for.... those who have found their path, and know with an unwavering faith who and what they are, are charged with helping others to locate the path. That doesn't mean we TELL another were their path is.... for each person's path is different.... but we support them, even when they choose the wrong path, with an understanding that it is up to them which way they will go.... and in the grand scheme of things.... we are but a small 'blip' on the cosmic timeline. Our earth is 3.5-4.5 BILLION years old.... our NASA programs have recently uncovered planetary systems that are 60 BILLION Lightyears from Earth.... and yet we still fight and kill because we think we are the be all and end all in the WHOLE process..... it is really quiet laughable to me.... to think that we are soo important. Of course, I must handle people with patience, because many of them think this world didn't begin until the times of just before Moses and Noah.... that is what they have been taught. Having been raised in a Fund. christian family.... my mother was always cautioning me as to what I read, and it wasn't until I was out of the family home that I began to discover just how wrong my parents understanding of this world was. So.... shelve the bickering and the fighting.... and let all people have thier own opinion about things. Stop trying to "bring them over" to your way of thinking, and just rejoice in the diversity that is human life on this planet.
Awesome!!!!! What an awesome way to describe your beliefs. What a refreshing view! I totally agree with you.
Thank God for you Mayor_LaLa. That is the most intelligent thing I've read all week, fair play. You know, Isaac Newton, when he wasn't thinking about apples in orbit around some strange planet, used to spend most of time attempting to crack the Torah code The Equidistant Letters Sequences in the first five books of the Torah he believed, as traditional Jewish belief suggested, that encoded in the Torah is a documented account of everything that has ever happend, or shall happen.is encoded into the first five books. _Prof. Eliyahu Rips, the man who claims to have cracked the code using a computer, suggested that ther might even be a more detailed account of everything that ever happend, or will happen, written into the fabric of the Universe itself. Just as isaac Newton once did. . Sorry to ramble on there I'm a bit stone.. But yea, I'll go along with that.
hehe.... shhhhh, don't tell anyone that I figured all that out during a summer filled with much smoking.... and a lot of soul searching.
i think that if there is a god, he's a piece of shit, at 15 i witnessed my father die right in front of me of a heart attack. so fuck god, i wan't nothing to do with him.
"i think, therefore i am". If you question the existence of a god, then you question everything that the HUMAN existance is about. I am, for one, a questioner of the existence of anything beyond the physical existance plane. But the more i looked the more backwards it got. I would always end up at the ever looming question "How do i exist?", let alone a "heavenly being" that is apparently responsible for all things that you see before you today, but still can't mannage to help his/her/it's apparent children. If we are "Gods children" we must be bastard childs or something or other? But what i'm so desperately trying to get at is, how can we be dealing with oh so many deep, confronting issues when we don't even know ourself (the inner workihgs of the human mind and reason for OUR existence). Or maybe we should just accept? All i know is that we should be trying to solve the things that we know exist in the first place before we trivialise over myths and legends. We are real yet we do not know how so... ...but i guess we all just get side tracked with the trivial issues. And just one for the road... What are your views on the meaning of life? To accuire utopia, complete knowledge of all that is around us or is it just purely to pass on the genetic code within all of us? Put on a bit of Tool smoke a J and give it a thaught.
Christians, (sorry lads), taking up space. Atheism is just as ridiculous as Christianity. We are monkeys just down from the trees. We have problems thinking about anything infinite. Just as we have a problem with anything beginning from nothing. Nothing is infinite by the way. Just as infinity is nothing. I don't mean to be cruel about the Christians it's just I find their arguments totally uninspiring and meaningless. Equally as meaningless as the arguments put forward by the Atheists. Mayor_LaLa you sound like a very interesting girl. I would like to know more about you. Someonehigh, you also sound interesting, yet very pissed off. Who could blame you. But I would like you to know that everyone in this world at some point or another shall curse God, existence or what ever in such a manner as you have. You are not alone my friend.
First off to Stunty like the old adage goes my friend: "He who decides a case without hearing the other side, even if he decides justly, cannot be considered just" So on the affirmative argument on religions you loose all attention, all i hear is a diatribe nothing but noisome words no matter how jocular u state it is you wont go far with that. The way i feel about religion is quiet evident i feel religion is SUPERSTITION and what is SUPERSTITION?: -To belive in spite of evidence or without evidence. -To account for one mystery by another. -To belive that the world is governed by chance or caprice. -To disregard the true relation between cause and effect. -To put thought, intention and design back of nature. -To belive that mind created and controls matter. -To belive in force apart from substance, or in susbstance appart from force i can go on and on about atheism but if u are an atheist like really passionate about it then u wouldnt have to follow societys rules and norms so basically religion thats been altered my many people including kings the most who tangled it to theyre liking is just basically rules they set up to keep people in line and not get out of hand in there perception and i honestly cant take that one bit i respect others TOLERENCE but i try n make it obvious like this for example: if i belive something to be true, it is because of the weight of eveidencein it's favour, not because of superstition, wishfull thinking or the assertionsof religious leaders. (if a church changes it's views on a subject, followers are expected to simply cease believing the old version and start believing the new- X was true yesterday, but now Y is true and X is false) just my opinion thou. GROWW ONN-peace o u t Edit- one more thing Benjamin Franklin was an aethiest ... wich is why he wanted to know more beyond what "god" created so he took hes kite n key ...but he wasnt all good he had (not precise cause its what i heard from my anthropology teacher from class) but about 6 kids outside his marrige and his son deliberately joined the opposing army cause he hated his father soo much soo Ben there didnt follow the norms either but he said nothing about it to the rest or else he wouldnt be what he was. But he questioned and went about finding an answer! wich is mutual to Aethiests...
hehe, thanks so much.... what would you like to know? Ask away, and don't worry too much about offending me, as I am not easily offended. I am a pretty open person, and if you ask something I would prefer not to share, I will tell you, all I ask is that you not be offended if I decide to refrain from telling all there is to know about me at this point.... lol, a girl has to hang on to some mysteries.
Nice speech HighAztec. And I'm sure there are a lot of heads nodding in agreement with you. A couple of things you pointed out I feel need an explanation though. 1:Quote "He who decides a case without hearing the other side, even if he decides justly, cannot be considered just" What makes you so sure I haven't seen both sides? Most Atheists I know come from very religious background. 2:Quote ‘So on the affirmative argument on religions you loose all attention' At what point did you make your mind up as to what it is I actually believe? 3:Quote ‘The way I feel about religion is quiet evident I feel' With this I presume you mean the evidence for religion is in the feelings you experience when contemplating existence. We'll I agree, the evidence is certainly there. As to what that evidence actually proves, has so far, been claimed by nobody else except the only two schools of belief, arrogant enough to do so. Let's have a look what you said again, ‘religion is quite evident', Mm... The other school guilty of such single narrow mindedness brings me to my next point. 4 ‘I can go on and on about atheism but if u are an atheist like really passionate about it then u wouldn't have to follow society's rules and norms and then there would be total chaos so basically religion that's been altered my many people including kings the most who tangled it to they're liking is just basically rules they set up to keep people in line and not get out of hand in there perception and i honestly cant take that one bit i respect others TOLERENCE but i try n make it obvious like this for example' Who said I am an Atheist? Atheism is a belief isn't it? You go on about rules and regulations like you're convinced that that's what religion actually provides you with. I don't need to mention how many wars, deaths and over population of our species religion is responsible for in this planets history. Atheism in my opinion, is as blind and as arrogant as Christianity, Catholicism, Hinduism………You get the picture. So before I draw your attention to point one again I would thank you for any apology you feel you may owe. 5: Quote ‘all i hear is a diatribe nothing but noisome words no matter how jocular u state it is you won't go far with that' So far you have pigeon holed me, judged me and insulted me. Pointing out the style in which something has been written, and putting it on a platform of self righteous pomposity for like shallow minded idiots to ridicule reminds me of how the church once used the evolution of the eye, to belittle and render timid the theory of evolution. Well joking aside my friend, if you think that I'm going to crumble and run away you are very much mistaken. Maybe this time you will hear me. We are animals, a primitive form of intelligence making uneducated assumptions as to what exists beyond what we know to be real, all due to our inadequacy to accept the harsh, naked truth of this existence and be happy with it. If there is a God so what? Likewise if there is no God then so what. NOTHING IS INFINATE. INFINITY IS NOTHING