where did god come from

in case rasta didn't beat you to a pulp enough....heres a few more slaps

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html#creadate
this link above directly proves the earths age (roughly 13.7 BILLION years old) and directly proves your arguements incorrect. a must read....

http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf/94q2faf/94q2humn.shtml
http://www.ecotao.com/holism/hu_sap.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/mar/13/fossils.internationalnews


heres a good one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating


intermission......you do know that the early civilizations arose in central america, india, and china too, right?? 8th grade world history only teaches about mesopotamia and the sumerians. wait, you say.... thats all over the world?? gotta be from the dildo 'great flood'. nope....all it is is proof the earth's continents, 200 million years ago or so, came together in a giant land mass called 'pangea'. thus spreading life all over the globe and assisting greatly in the FACT of evolution by breakin itself apart again. during which all of our beautiful mountain ranges were formed.....millions of year ago....

oh and heres some more PROOF.... (rockies age)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n4_v18/ai_19227823
http://www.8750.com/rockymtns.asp


now jonathon, disbeliever among believers, you say you dont want just see dates....well make sure you read the first link. it PROVES, SCENTIFICALLY, why those, and the other dates are true and relevant. (atmospherical Helium-4)


i hope, one day, you read your own written words and take your own advice...

the only person here with presuppositions is you. we don't suppose or assume we are right...we know it...and are backed by mountains of scientific proof. sure, you gather websites that are on your side..... but there are also websites on how to kill yourself and how to get different color hydranea blooms with different pH levels in soil. i bet i can google, 'why jonathon is wrong', and find a shit load of sites in my favor. you have to actually READ and REASEARCH. don't just find keywords that jump out at you that show a certain beneficial article....probably written by a pastor with a 4 a.m. t.v. show on public access channel 130772986


i would smoke more weed and really get some good literature..... i suggest, 'The Origin of Species" by one of my favorite persons ever...Charles Darwin. (i think i'm the only person i know hos ACTUALLY read it). You should like Darwin.....he though evolution took place much longer than it actually does in many circumstances..... kinda like how you, and other 'creationists' think something 4.7 billion years old is only 6000. when in fact, there eas even an existance another 9 billions years behind that.


and i'm spent..............


-cmr-

 

i think i'll double post that link again..... i can't stress its importance enough...


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html#creadate

you do know what helium-4 is right??? its your one of your peoples biggest arguments...... sucks thats wrong too

 

one last thing (yea right, last...i keep thinking i'm done...).....

it seems 85% of your links are from the same website. a website that has 'genesis' right in the address....now do you honestly think that a website called 'answersingenesis' (most likely run by a religious organization) does not have a bias towards the truth?? obviously that type of website is going to have arguements in creationisms favor. and its kinda strange the site has no references!! you can refer to the vatican for info too...... but we all know they omit things they find detrimental to their cause.

having said that....most all of the links posted against your arguments are from universities, encyclopedias and other scientific or educational organization run sites. all with many references at the bottom.... something we learn to do in 5th grade essay writing.

heres a good argument you can try to bullshit through....

do you deny the existance of diamonds?? diamonds are formed in extreme heat and pressures very deep in the earth's crust and even mantle. diamonds form from carbon atoms. for a long time it was thought that the carbon was inorganic.... but it has recently been found that certain diamond mines have diamonds containing carbon-12....an atom that coincides with living things. all natural diamonds are ATLEAST 99.9 million years old. atleast. since you dont believe just dates.... read the links below.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761557986/Diamond.html
http://www.original-diamonds.com/jewelry_knowledge_facts.php

reading your posts, and your response to posts, makes it quite obvious to me that you don't read one fuckin line of the references and links posted in opposition to your arguments. you are immaturely and blatently disregarding all atempts to show your PROOF and EVIDENCE!! I, on the ohter hand, have read through your links.... and the info on those sites, besides being unreferenced, is quite thoroughly disputed and PROVED wrong by the several links posted by myself and rasta....along with dynasy's video.

i dont expect you to just give up and say, 'you win...i'm wrong'. i just want you to admit that your arguments are weak, your references are from unreliable and biased sources, and that all 'evidence' you provided is incorrect and has been directly proved wrong.


one thing you will eventually realize..... everything you believe in was 'created' by the big bang. the paper the bible is written on, the people who first wrote it, the people over the years who changed it in their favor, the hay in jesus' manger, the computer that houses the fallicious website 'answersingenisis', and even the brain that (for some crazy reason) wont allow you to understand the truth or to be capable of intelectual and rational reasoning....... everything you ever knew, saw, smelled, thought, tasted, fucked or touched was 'created' by the big bang and the nuclear factories that we call, stars. no shit we don't know what happened before the big bang. save that arguement for someone who doesn't know anything. but i would like to remind you, and others, that the big bang was once unknown...... the world was once thought to be flat...... the earth was once thought to be the center of the solar system/universe.....

there has always been, and always will be unanswered questions. but the only way those questions will be accurately answered is by the scientific method. not by invalid and quite ignorant and immature arguements to the contrary. its extremely hard to take anything opposing science seriously. especially fuckin creationism. the word itself is made up by someone who wants their false theory to sound legit.



once again.................i am spent...... (throws camera over shoulder)


-cmr-

 

Unless you didn't notice, I stepped out of this debate. If I was still in this debate, I would be still debating. I have posted my reasons, and people's taunts aren't going to convince me to come back and debate. Your posts don't answer my arguements at all, and if people actually read the soures I link to , they would undestand that.

Post as much as you like, I don't care.

 

thanks for the permission to post........ i feel so relieved now that I have your say so

tell me what arguments of yours I, or rasta didn't prove wrong... please.... i'd love to know

 

Well, this is one of the major problems I have with deity-centric religions.

Personally, I believe there is a higher power. Possibly a sentient being, maybe something else. Like the Force. Sounds weird, but I'm serious. I have a hard time believing that any one being created everything in the Universe, but I also have a hard time believing it all just fuckin popped up out of nowhere one day.

Like I was saying about 'The Force'... I think the higher power governing the universe is not so much a being, but rather a force. Imagine the basic laws of physics here on Earth, that we humans have figured out. Perhaps the entire Universe was created and is maintained by a similar set of forces, and we humans lack the mental capacity to grasp the magnitude of it. Not a sentient being, but rather, just forces that are, always have been, and always will be. Expanding the universe, shitting out galaxies, and continually generating obnoxious little planets filled with primitive, half-witted little life forms who have the arrogance to think they amount to two shits in the grand scheme of things (and still think digital wristwatches were a pretty neat idea ).

I doubt that made any sense, but it's a rather complex notion and I simply don't have the words to put it into writing.

 

man how long did those page long reply's take ya'll? who the fuck has the time to read through it all haha


I believe that there is something else like a god, and that death is not the end. Granted it could just be how the human mind protects itself from realizes its insignificance.

us figuring out god is like trying to teach a child quantum physics, we just dont have the brain capacity and intelligence to handle or comprehend it.


TIME TO FUCKING SMOKE AND EMBRACE EACHOTHER!!!!

 

Several days ago, my mind was struggling with itself in a religious battle... Am I going to burn in hell for being skeptical of creationism? I privately took up the issue with Rasta_Man... It clicked when he told me something that stood out from other anti-theist statements... And how could you not see it?

"God is mythology; no more real than Zeus or Posiden."
Rasta_Man

Also, whenever I think of shit like within myself, I struggle with it sometimes out of guilt... But after I come to I realize how simple it could be to create the bible. Get a few guys together who command order and respect in societies, collaborate on a book that tells you if you don't do this, you burn forever and everything is miserable for eternity... And there you have it-- Millions of followers years upon years later, with their faces to the floor for a story book character who watches everything you do.

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
Voltaire

Why are humans the only creatures with organized religion? Because we're the only ones with the intelligence and communication to create it.

When Earth's next mass extinction comes, the whole cycle starts over.

So many questions to answer, that can never be answered.

As far as when space started, it's easy for me to grasp that space just exists... Limitless nothingness, what's so hard about that?

Can a Christian in this thread tell me what it was like before they were conceived during intercourse--(I'll answer that: No.) So why is it so hard to believe that that's what you get when you die? Why are people, including myself, so insecure that we'd like to wish there was an epilogue to this chemical reaction of a life we live? That when our brains shut down, they simply shut down and that's that? That space has simply existed as an infinite nothingness forever. The evolutionist theories of how the earth came about, Primordial Soup, etc.? Evolution, Natural Selection, how can it be that hard to grasp? A species will to adapt resulting in changing physically, mentally over the span of millions of years? Analogous features, homologous features... Why isn't that possible?

I'm agnostic, always will be. Can't nobody know for sure.

"Love is my religion, I don't condemn, I don't convert... Love is my religion, I'll take ya to the temple tonight!"
Ziggy Marley​

 

God is something that can only be understood, once you can understand your own imagination.

Once you are beginning to understand your imagination, then you can begin to try to understand god.

Not everything in life is as complex as we let ourselves believe. Sometimes just purposing in your heart to do something, and following your heart through it is enough.

 

what you call the"force" i tihnk of as a wave moving up and down floating on keeping things balanced. some how in that wave humans arose and to balance out the humans a "god" or higher being was created too balance us out. i see things as outcomings of a wave balancing itself out. too keep order and balance

 

I have found a possible answer for HOW AN ETERNAL GOD WITH NO BEGINNING COULD HAVE COME INTO EXISTENCE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND STILL BE ETERNAL WITH NO BEGINNING.


If you have any interest in this idea, I have posted this answer as a you-tube video at
and this video comes from a website called uniquebibleanswers.com .

 

“Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”
Christopher Hitchens

 

The key to understanding the origin of God involves the answer to the question, "Could God have created time itself?" For once you recognize that God could never have created time itself from within a completely timeless realm, then the answer to the origin of God becomes simple.


Consider this idea.


"If time itself is naturally eternal with no actual beginning, then if time itself ever became alive as 4-dimensional Living Spacetime, then the resulting living being would be just as naturally eternal as time itself and have no true beginning either--a newly alive eternal God."




Thus, if a naturally eternal entity with no beginning ever transitioned into being alive, the resulting life form would also be naturally eternal with no beginning either, just like God. So I suggest that God's Holy Spirit is literally composed of four-dimensional Living Spacetime. (See uniquebibleanswers.com)




The proof of this idea involves the logical impossibility of God being able to initially create time itself. Consider the following:


If God created time itself, then God must have originally existed within a completely timeless realm. However, God could never have created time itself from within a completely timeless realm. Nor could God have created anything else from within a completely timeless realm either, because time itself must pre-exist any and all actions or thoughts, including God's own thoughts and actions. So without the existence of time within a timeless realm, God could neither create anything nor even think anything. Therefore, since time itself must have pre-existed any of God's thoughts and actions, then God could never have existed within a completely timeless ream in order to create time in the first place. The inevitable conclusion is that God could never have created time itself.


Therefore, since time exists and since time could never have been created by God, then time itself must have pre-existed God. And since God could never have created HIMSELF either, then our eternal God had to have literally emerged FROM (and therefore literally come FROM) time itself. Therefore God's Spirit must be 4-dimensional Living Spacetime!


This is most likely why (in Revelation 22:13) Jesus did NOT say, "I CREATED the BEGINNING and the END", or "I existed BEFORE the BEGINNING and the END", because God could NOT have created time or existed before time. However, as 4-dimensional Living Spacetime Jesus would naturally say, "I AM [literally] the BEGINNING and the END" (Revelation 22:13) because Jesus is LIVING TIME. So when Jesus says, "I AM the BEGINNING and the END", I believe Jesus is actually saying, "I AM [literally] the LIVING PAST, THE LIVING PRESENT and the LIVING FUTURE".


So GOD'S HOLY SPRIT is composed of 4 dimensional Living Spacetime.


(See uniquebibleanswers.comfor 6 essays that cover the complete details of the mechanism by which time itself could have become alive as an eternal God with no beginning.)

 

As someone with a strong science background including physics, I've come to strongly lean to the existence of a powerful entity though would not describe such as Christian's describe god as being omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence but rather an incredibly ancient, powerful, knowledgeable, technically advanced, and capable entity that exists in a universe that has limitations even for the entity whether that entity created such or just evolved within it. In other words I don't believe in magic because such is simply illogical while noting what such an entity might be able to do through real physical means might seem like magic as in miracles to we infant race humans. My primary reason for leaning so is because everything at atomic and particle levels is so incredibly perfectly "fine tuned" to create a universe as exists. I'll speculate our own planet Earth may be a zoological garden that a supreme entity and its like race has created life here on and gardened. And although they may have kept a mostly low invisible unmanifested profile in the past, given how we human's endless runaway growth, development, and overpopulation threaten life here in ways as climate change, that could change anytime.

As for space, time, and matter, that has through eternity most logically always existed thus never had to had a "beginning". There either has never been anything or has always been stuff with the fact we aware beings exist proof of the latter. Time never needed to be created as it is a logical consequence of stuff. Eternity is beyond understanding longer than the 15 billion years of our current universe and I'll speculate space may well exist eternally beyond. That such a supreme essentially immortal intelligent entity came into being is logical and once that happened would forever be the only such entity within its realm. The entity would not likely be some organic alien life but rather would have evolved far beyond that as a machine possibly in parts organic with replaceable parts. Even in this age, top scientists like Hawkins have related that they expect a time after man understands the nature of our own conscious brains that man will design like semi organic machines that far surpass ourselves. Over eternity that such has already occurred elsewhere leading to a supreme entity has logic.

As someone that has studied the Bible, I've found it to be a book written by ancient science ignorant people that interpreted what they experienced as best they could without their god interfering or changing any text that was obviously nonsense. I see nothing in Genesis that cannot be reinterpreted in science based ways that do not include magic. Also likewise can understand how such a supreme entity would strongly dislike the way ancient human civilizations developed with immoral behaviors, endless killings and wars, and thus used Jesus with his gift of eternal life as a way to change our species for the better without such being certain. And since what we are is likely a Conscious Electro Magnetic Information Field aka CEMI, within our physical nervous systems, such might very much be saved within a suitable container that mirrored our own nervous system structure probably water molecule based non organically.

 

the bible doesn't say the world is 6,000 years old - that is just stupid. if you go back to genesis and read the first few verses, you will be confused because it says he created the heavens earth at that time. however, if you go to the hebrew it actually says the world BECAME without form and was void. nowhere else did god create anything else without form and void. IT BECAME THIS WAY. there were angels on earth before man and satan brought down a 1/3rd of the angels before this took place. did this take 1 year or 1,000,000,000,000 years? there is nothing that clearly answers this.

maybe study the book a little more before becoming an authority (whether you believe any of it or not).

 

I’ve often wondered about the 6,000 year old thing - what are you guys (seriously - please) thoughts on this? Where does it say in the Bible how old the earth is?

Does this include the entire galaxy - everything? It must, if you use the “God created the Heavens & the Earth” as part of the equation.

Serious question and I’m really interested in trying to understand how folks come up with the 6,000 year number?

J

 

@Ronhip

Do you believe in the 6,000 year deal?

6,000 years isn’t very long right - what about dinosaur fossils? Coal? It takes a very long time and extreme pressure to make coal, diamonds - assorted gemstones.

How long it took for the Grand Canyon to be cut out of the earth? The separation of
Continents, the rising and beating down of mountain ranges.

Just to name a few...

Without getting into the age of the Sun - the Milky Way Galaxy and so much more?

I’ve had others tell me and believed the whole 6,000 year thing - but it’s sjmply not long enough. Heck, there are trees (bristlecone pines) around 5,000 years old.

J