where did god come from

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by doindia, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. i first would like to put my beliefs out there, 100% christian i have faith and believe in god, the big bang makes no sense, and even if it did, the space that it banged out of had to be created.... but


    i got stoned the other night and was talking with a friends and everything ended in "well what created that"

    some people say, well thats where faith comes in, but i just want to know others opinions even scientfic opinions. anything to better my knowledge of it on either side.

    god made the earth, people, grass, solar system etc.. thats easy for me to grasp, but who/what made, what made all that? (god)

    lol sorry if that last part didnt make sense, read it a few times
     
  2. gods are created by men to give them a false sense of security and provide a moral code for society...
    in the olden days they needed gods to divide themselfs and war with each other...they still use faith and the ideal of god to wage wars in this earth age....silly fuckin humans
     
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  3. Well the God of Abraham is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Father and the Son- the Almighty :D

    God created God, God just is without Creation forming boundaries on things. (If the God of Abraham is an Infinite Being, the way He describes)

    When you think of God as a formless non-mass of nothingness when He is infinite (and according to Him, it's ALWAYS been that way)

    Nothing needs to create nothing, it's just awareness of nothing actually being capable of EVERYTHING, that is the key people miss about the origin of God.

    God has no origin accept for one that we can give Him- God just is. He didn't begin, and He will never end.

    It just goes on and on- creation is not necessary when it's always been.

    Creation would be more entertainment than orgin from that point of view-
     
  4. Ya pretty much, if you believe god is an all-powerful being, he doesnt need to be created
    While i am not much of a believer, i always get annoyed when someboddy argues against god because something had to create god, or they argue how its impossible to create the earth in a day, or any type of argument like that
    The argument the christian (or other religion) presents is that god did this, and god is all powerful, he doesnt have to adhere to human limitations.

    while he may not believe, he needs to understand the presented argument better
     
  5. this explains it very well...
    http://www.carm.org/questions/god_origin.htm
     
  6. How could someone "easily grasp" how the entire Solar System and everything in it came to be yet claims that The Big Bang Theory makes no sense?

    Unless their beliefs are not rooted in science at all, I find it hard to imagine that one can comprehend everything in our Solar System yet be unwaveringly stumped in understanding the Big Bang Theory. It stands to reason that this person would be a full-blown genius. Quantum Mathematics should be within their grasp.

    What I fail to understand is how one can believe their is a grand design behind a Planet on which 99.9% of all species to have ever existed on it have gone extinct.
     
  7. First, creationists do not believe the big bang fits with scientific principles, something more and more evolutionists are coming to recognise.

    Second, noone can ever know everything in the physical universe. Therefore our knoledge is limited in that regard and if it were only that, we would be required to make large assumptions. But what you're not grasping, is that like many people you fail to recognise the Spiritual evidence of God's nature. We cannot establish everything in the universe as a fact, but with the understanding God has given us in our hearts we can recognise his eternal nature. Since it is eternal, it encompasses everything. There is no gap. As I have said in other places, faith is the evidence of things not seen. It's spiritual, and if you understand that God is a Spirit, then you can understand that we must have a spiritual recognition, spiritual proof. It's more substantial than any evidence you find in the outside world, but it cannot be seen therefore it requires our recognition of it's existence without empirical science, which can only deal with things in the outside world in the present only.

    But science does play an important part. It confirms what we find in the outside world is created by God and shows evidence of a designer, further strengthening and affirming faith. It is an attention grabber, that turns the attention from the evidence in nature to the internal recognition of his divine nature.

    I suggest you go and look up some creation articles on Noah's flood. This catastrophe and also other enviromental factors for extinction (much like in today's world) are the explanation, which fits wonderfully with the evidence and God's word is how creationists explain the large sedimentary layers and catastrophic loss of species.
     
  8. Honestly, I don't care what Creationists believe.

    That's akin to telling me what delusional madmen believe about the Big Bang Theory. Of course a Creationist cannot even remotely fathom the Big Bang Theory in their scietific delusions, they do not even acknowledge the existence of anything outside our own Solar System (of course, without explaining how it was formed.) How could they possibly have a theory on how something that does not exist was formed?

    Are you a Creationist? Do you, someone who is allegedly so educated in the sciences, actually believe that this planet is 6,000 years old?

    If not, why would you expect me, an anti-theist, to even bother acknowledging such radical beliefs that you yourself cannot even justify? You must be absolutely insane if you really expected me to justify such rhetoric. You might want to seek psychiatic help.
     
  9. Do you have sources for any of the opinions you spew or are we to take it on faith that you know what you're talking about? You tend to make broad claims about what certain groups of people believe without showing anything to support your position.
     
  10. Whoa, that's not true at all. Creationists do indeed believe in space beyond our solar system. That is wrong.

    everyone who believes in biblical creation is a creationist. So, yes I am.

    I absolutely believe that the earth is around 6,000 years old and that archaeological evidence fits this wonderfully. Did you know that all of the ancient nations, Egypt, Babylon, chaldea etc. , they all sprang up as civilized nations with technology (such of which we still don't understand) with absolutely no record of long periods of development. It is as if they..stepped of of a boat after a worlwide flood. Well, and that is what the bible teaches. But evolution teaches that man devloped over long long periods of time. So man was evolving slowly over millions of years ( I think I read ojnce that it took him a couple hundred thousand years or somewhere around there just to learn to make a weapon, and then another long period for him to make fire) and then all of a sudden Babylon, Egypt, caana, syria, Greece, rome etc. Arise up out of seemingly nowhere so to speak with developed languages, advanced mathmatic knoledge, technology etc. One minute they're stupid half men, the next they are a intelligence race with high levels of intelligence with no record of thier slow, thousands of years development. It doesn't make sense at all.


    Lt:

    I post sources often. I didn't know I was supposed to be writing essays for you with all my sources listed at the bottom. I do support my position, and I underrstand the position of the majority of evolutionists and creationists, and I also recognise that there are smaller competing views. I in no way negated this.

    Please be more specific about what you're referring to when you say "broad claims". Something seemingly broad to you may be as simple to confirm as a search on the internet or library. I can give evidence for everything I say.
     
  11. Geeze, this is just awful.

    You believe the earth is 6,000 years old. If this is the case, it means the world must have been created around 4,000 B.C.

    However, the Bronze Age occurred roughly in the periods of 7,000 B.C. to 1,000 B.C. [http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9106268/Aegean-civilizations]

    Mathematical knowledge existed waayyy before Jesus, and didn't spring up randomly after he did. The Roman empire began around 750 B.C., however math had existed for thousands of years prior. There's no historical evidence to suggest that these post-Jesus civilizations formed "advanced mathematics," it existed prior to Jesus for thousands of years!

    What about Sumer? They are the earliest known civilization, spanning from 5300 B.C. to 2,000 B.C. If the earth is only 6,000 years old, how can you account for this?

    And advanced technology? Why can't this advanced technology be the result evolving?

    Also:
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    Sorry, young-earth creationists are ridiculous.

    And to the OP:

    From dictionary.com I got the following:
    "Ultimately, the origin of the word god is uncertain but it appeared in various spellings in Old English c. 825 and had cognates in the Old Frisian, Old Saxon, Dutch, Old High German, Old Norse, and Gothic languages. There are two Aryan roots - one meaning 'to invoke' (Sanskrit) and the other meaning 'to pour, to offer sacrifice' and 'to boast' (Greek). The word was first used in a non-Christian sense to refer to a superhuman person who was worshipped and believed to have power over nature and the fortunes of man. The words for god were originally neuter, but when Germanic tribes adopted Christianity, God became masculine in form. In the Old Testament various names for God are used: YHWH, Adonai [my Lord], Jehovah, and Yahweh. The most common name for God in the Old Testament is Elohim, a plural form, but used as a singular when speaking of God. The spelling god is first seen in print around 900."

    http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/e34.html

    Hope that answers your question.
     
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  12. Well, jonathan, I put it to you that you are the most illogical poster in GrassCity history.

    That was realized through objective analysis of your post-quality. Now, knowing where it all originates from... it becomes so crystal clear. Thank you for re-assuring my duty as an anti-theist.
     
  13. One day when I was in class I mused that the entire universe was created by computers... and when the computers are evolved enough on earth we will create a sub universe.

    There is a lot more to it than that, but thats the just of it; so if that's the case then who knows which sub universe we are in. (and that also means that we are the gods, and the gods that created our universe are separated from us by their computer, and its laws, as well as their laws).

    Inevitably this begs the question, "who created the original universe"?

    The original universe was simply a duality; what caused the split of 'god' into light and dark can be seen simply as the law of anything, any complex system will break up into simpler parts.

    Any duality, instantly creates a switch, (like a semi conductor), and is the basis for a computer system.
     
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  14. my feelings: the big bang theory is a stop gap, to a much better understanding of the beginning of our universe. new paradigms are yet unseen.

    I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire by George Martin. so far on book 3 of 4 (3 more yet to be written). Religion plays a central role in the story, very much inspired by our species' cultural and religious revolutions (and revolts, and wars, rapes, tortures, pillages, plunders, incest, backstabbing, etc.... all the shit they don't tell you about in sunday school). Many faiths are present, and houses will switch from one to another, when powers that control them leave them no choice.

    It's crazy shit, worth checking out.

    not to forget..
     
  15. an educated person would not assume that all those things took place within the same day, week, or even year. look at how long it takes to reach a new plateau in science. it's not like people just looked at the moon and thought "i'm gonna go there today". and please don't base your opinions on something you THOUGHT you read.....once. either you read something or you didn't.
     
  16. "God always was and is and ever will be." That's the typical answer you're gonna get out of a Christian. But can an omnipotent being not be able to create itself out of nothing? Can it destroy itself and then recreate itself after? Yes. If that's what you mean by omnipotent, and then you get the response: "but what would be the purpose of that?" and so God doesn't destroy itself and recreate itself because it is a futile action.

    If there were no humans on Earth and only animals, would there still be a God? Christians: Yes. That's to the argument that says that Man created God. Which in my opinion we did to settle debates that had no answer. Why does God "word in myseterious ways"? Because that's the way we perceive the world. We're ignorant of many many many things STILL that have been here on Earth for millions of years, not to mention outer space. God is the "answer" most people point to in order to feel "closer" to theirselves. By that I mean, not alienated from the world, and because God exists only in the minds of those who can perceive such a being, they live a double personality - that of themselves and that of themselves in relation to God/very personal relationship.

    So where did God come from? God came from God/God has always been. If you believe that. Or there is no God. Or a higher God created God, one so powerful that even an omnipotent God like the one we're capable of imagining cannot fuck with it (blow yo mind yo). (This paragraph is pure cheese, eh.)
     

  17. I would assume that people would have the capability of knowing that if you're in the centre (presumably) of the Universe (supposedly) that there is something outside of it holding it in together, like skin holding in organs. Without a universe how can there be a solar system...or without a glass to hold water it is only a puddle on the floor.
     

  18. Perhaps there is a "grand plan" for all species to evolve into one superspecies in the faaaaar diiiiiiistant future. We can't even fathom it right now b/c we're so immersed in politics. Our direction as a species has lost its way.
     

  19. You've never heard of dark ages where war takes over, pestilence and plagues are rampant, and knowledge is just...forgotten? And perhaps the reason you have no history past 6000 years is because Man only began writing down their experiences for that long. Maybe, I have no Holy sources like the almighty Bible.
     
  20. Um quadruple posting?

    Learn to use the quote command, guy. :rolleyes:



    EDIT: young earth creationism? Oh this is going to be too easy! Bring it on, man. It's been thoroughly debunked by science.
     

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