Whats Wrong with Redistribution of Wealth?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mutatis, Feb 11, 2014.

    Have you ever read the tax brackets?
    The percentage gets higher and higher the more you make. Taxes are high for everyone but the rich? That's pure ignorance.
    You may still disagree with our tax policy, and that's fine. But you can do so without lying.

  2. What a silly thread.
    Can we stop criticizing MSM news outlets until our own act gets cleaned up?
  3. #103 Bill O'Really, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    I to, make the people that want to love and respect me work to prove it! lol

    BTW.. I love your avatar. That was without a doubt one of the best shows ever. I could relate to both Jesse and Walter. When I was young I thought about how hard I wanted to be. How tough I was.
    When I got old and married I somehow became entangled in that dichotomy of what I thought, and what was reality. The person I was back then would fear me and be disgusted by my seemingly inhuman ability to be cruel and cold. The me now respects that person but wishes he could understand what is really important in life is dictated by responsibility, regardless of the cost to self, or soul. The lives of my family..... Heisenberg was a Ronin. Jesse was a Samurai..

    Man I love that show. I'd like to see Jesse twenty years from now, and how he has come to terms with life and the lessons he learned. And the lengths he'd go to for his family.
    But that show about Saul is gonna be hot too.
    You are misrepresenting this chart, and it does not accurately portray the total amount of taxes that any individual pay.
    There is nothing unfair about this chart.  EVERYONE (whether you earn 10,000 a year or 1 billion a year) is taxed exactly the same on the first $9,075 they earn (single filer). Everyone pays the same 15% on the next $27,824 that they earn.  And so on.
    Someone earning over $400,000 a year is not paying 39% of their total income.  They are paying 39.4% on every dollar OVER 406,751. 
    This doesn't take into account social security or medicare taxes, which are only taxed on the first ~$100,000 earned, which is around another 8-14% that is primarily being charged to the middle class. 
    If you look at the total percentage of income that is being taxed, it is the people in the upper-middle class ($100-250K) who pay the largest percentage of their income to taxes:

    In other words, my husband and I, who both work very hard, between 50-60 hours a week, in professional jobs, earning middle class incomes pay a slightly higher percentage of our income to taxes than many people earning 100x or more. 
    Yet we pay 50% more in taxes than people earning 1/2 of what we do.
    Do you think that's wealth redistribution?  We pay a LOT in taxes, and all I see is my wealth going to people who are a lot more wealthy than I am.
  5. Wow really? That's it? That's all you got? The rich make the majority of their money off of passive income which is taxed at a much lower rate. The ignorance of the American tax code is astounding to me...
    I'm just fucking with you. Seriously though, that don't mean shit. And that is why the tax code needs repair, that is where the elites are fucking the poor, and the rich. Elites aren't represented in that structure. And what we consider rich? They are really just the upper end of middle class. Elites make that amount in a day, without ever lifting a finger, just off interest.
  6. #106 Runningw235, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    I never said it was unfair. You put those words in my mouth. And obviously I can't encapsulate ALL of tax policy in one picture. I also never made that claim.
    We've been over this before. As a matter of fact, last time you made the claim that someone making 9,000,000 in one year pays 100% more than someone who makes 90,000. I showed you that it is wrong, then you disappeared.
    I guess I have to write a treatise on tax code to respond to one comment that was blatantly false.
    As I mentioned before, there is no way to represent the enormous tax code in one picture.
    The rest of your post is too vague to respond to.
  8. Read my post just below yours. I think I said the same thing.... I think. It's what I meant. They have confused the tax payer into believing that the middle class are "rich" while they become elite and pay less, at the same time they make the rich/middle class pay more than they pay, and then increase minimum wages to force the poor into a higher tax bracket to make up the difference while making the middle class fall into the poor range and the real poor fall below the poverty line...... Aahhhhh. Makes me want to bang my head against the wall just trying to put it into words.
  9. In the early 1900s, there was child labor, mistreatment of employees, low and unlivable wages, unsanitary conditions in slaughterhouses, unsafe working conditions. This did not go away until government regulation made it stop. These conditions still exist worldwide, where they can get away with it. Bad business practices are illegal, like price gouging. (And, as far as I can tell, without a government, we don't have laws.) Corporations did not become what they are because they chose to. So, yes, I guess a free market has never technically existed, but we have seen and still see what corporations do when they're allowed to do it.

    Yes, I get the idea of profit. Corporations get the maximum amount of profit they can. Without regulation, they'd once again start paying low wages, enact unsafe conditions, etc., because that's what maximizes profit. The gap between the rich and poor would grow. This is what I believe would happen in a tax-free, government free utopia (I use that last word sarcastically).

    I do not choose or purposely ignore what people say. If I have, please point it out, and I'll address it.

    And, like I said, our disagreement comes down to what we believe. I don't think either of is will be able to change each other's mind, and I'm not necessarily trying to change yours, but we can endeavor to understand our respective positions, and I do understand yours better than I did before. I think you're wrong, but I can better see where you're coming from. :)
  10. Of course it's vague to you. You don't understand a thing about the reality of the differences between poverty, poor, middle class, rich and elite. If you did you wouldn't have posted that. Instead you would have discussed passive income and gains.
  11. #111 Runningw235, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    I am paid to teach economics, am in the top 1% of my class and have worked in the financial sector. What do you do?
    I posted a picture, and made no value judgements about whether or not it is fair and just. You all have made vast assumptions.
  12. #112 Penelope420, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    This is true, but the chart you posted is probably the least representative of what people actually pay.
    Yes, you are right - the wealthy pay a greater dollar amount in taxes then the rest of us.  But where it really counts is when you consider what percentage of their income a family is paying.
    A family who is earning $100k a year, is paying a mortgage (10-20%), health insurance (5%), retirement (5%), AND an additional 30% in taxes. 
    A person earning $100 million a year may still be paying 30% of their income towards taxes, but they aren't paying  20% of their income for a mortgage.  They don't have health insurance plans that cost $500K a year.   They aren't paying 2-3% of their income for heating and food.   We all use the same roads, the same infrastructure, the same schools, the same hospitals, and the same fire and police departments, but the middle class pay a far bigger price for them.
    It's not about "fair". You are the one painting the picture of the poor wealthy guy who is paying 40% of his income in taxes, even though that is not true.  I'm painting the picture of the average middle class worker. Where do you think you're more likely to fall in the future?
    Bold: Never said that. Is posting a picture of the tax brackets "painting a picture"? I made no value judgements. My Gosh.
    So we can look at it in percentages or dollar figures.
    e.g. If someone making 50,000 and 1,000,000 and were both taxed at 20% (effective rate) we could point to the percentage.
    Or we could say $10,000 vs $200,000 and say its 20x as much, or 2000%. So it depends how you view it.
    Regardless, I never "painted a picture". Nor did I say it was unfair as you asserted.
    I really was trying to respond to that one person. Whatever.
  14. Of course you were painting a picture.

    If you teach economics then you know the visual graphic you posted is not an accurate representation of actual tax rates.
  15. You have a choice in what you eat. High quality food costs less over time than junk food and Mcdonalds, by far. If that's what you don't want to choose, then turn to yourself about your "low quality food problems".
  16. Thank God we have people like you teaching real economics and morals top the future classes. Gotta chip away at the brainwashing and greed one mind at a time.
  17. That wouldn't happen IRL. Referring to governmental taxation.
  18. #118 Runningw235, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    It's one aspect of tax code, which demonstrated the point that the person I was responding to was incorrect in inferring that the rich pay nothing in taxes as compared to the rest of us. I didn't really need to be detailed to make that point, but yes you are correct. The tax system is more complex than that.
    You then decided what assertions you would place on it. It served one purpose, and you ran wild with it.
  19. #119 Gonzopoly*, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    I'm the government, give me 20% of your paycheck. Chances are you would just call the cops and I would be arrested. Cmon, that quote is unreasonable, 1) Who would declare themselves the government and get taken seriously.
    Edit: The guy who said that quote probably said it with those wide eyes like "EY"
    I have to keep moral judgements out of it as much as possible. And I have teach stuff like CPI and not get to spend a lot of time on its problems, for example. So it's not as ideal as it sounds, but then again everyone doesn't necessarily need my personal opinions on everything.

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