What's the deal with CO2

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by clos3tgrow3r, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. So I am new to this bear with me-- I know CO2 is used in combination with light to produce sugar but having no prior indoor experience I am having a difficult time figuring out how important it is to supply my plants with the gas. Typically is there enough CO2 in the air of a home to provide cannabis its sufficient levels? Right now I have been putting a 2 liter bottle filled with water, sugar, and dry yeast in my grow room during the day (the yeast digest the sugar and CO2 is given off as a byproduct) occasionally but have not noticed a difference in the health of my plants. Also even if there is enough CO2 in the air does adding the gas cause increased growth?
     
  2. here's a little info i pulled up, too early for me to go into much detail + i have to go stick a damn turkey in the oven. doing co2 enrichment correctly requires a pretty substantial investment, maintaining consistent co2 levels that will actually increase growth and yields.

    lol :smoke: chetto

    Elevating carbon dioxide levels can increase growth speed a great deal, perhaps even double it. It seems that the plant evolved in primordial times when natural CO2 levels were many times what they are today. The plant uses CO2 for photosynthesis to create sugars it uses to build plant tissues. Elevating the CO2 level will increase the plants ability to manufacture these sugars and plant growth rate is enhanced considerably.
    CO2 can be a pain to manufacture safely, cheaply, and/or conveniently, and is expensive to set up if you use a CO2 tank system. CO2 is most usable for flowering, as this is when the plant is most dense and has the hardest time circulating air around its leaves. If your strictly growing vegetatively indoors, (transferring your plants outdoors to flower), then CO2 will not be a major concern unless you have a sealed greenhouse, closet or bedroom, and wish to increase yield and decrease flowering time.
    For a medium sized indoor operation, one approach is to used CO2 canisters from wielding supply houses. This is expensive initially, but fairly inexpensive in the long run. These systems are good only if your area is not too big or too small.
    The basic CO2 tank system looks like this:
    20 lb tank $99
    Regulator $149
    Timer or controller $10-125
    Fill up $15-20
    Worst case = $395 for CO2 tank setup synced to a exhaust fan with a thermostat.
    CO2 is cheaply produced by burning Natural Gas. However, heat and Carbon Monoxide must be vented to the outside air. CO2 can be obtained by buying or leasing cylinders from local welding supply houses. If asked, you can say you have an old mig welder at home and need to patch up the lawnmower (trailer, car, etc.)
    For a small closet, one tank could last 2 months, but it depends on how much is released, how often the room is vented, hours of light cycle, room leaks, enrichment levels and dispersion methods. This method may be overkill for your small closet.
    It is generally viewed as good to have a small constant flow of CO2 over the plants at all times the lights are on, dispersed directly over the plants during the time exhaust fans are off.
    Opportunities exist to conserve CO2, but this can cost money. When the light is off you don not need CO2, so during flowering, you will use half as much if you have the CO2 solenoid setup to your light timer. When the fan is on for venting, CO2 is shut off as well. This may be up to half the time the light is on, so this will affect the plants exposure times and amount of gas actually dispensed.
    Environmentally, using bottled gas is better, since manufacturing it adds to greenhouse effect, and bottled CO2 is captured as part of the manufacturing process of many materials, and then recycled. Fermenting, CO2 generators, and baking soda and vinegar methods all generate new CO2 and add to greenhouse effect.
    CO2 generation from fermentation and generators is possible. A simple CO2 generator would be a propane heater. This will work well, as long as the gases can be vented to the grow area, and a fan is used to keep the hot CO2 (that will rise) circulating and available below at the plants level. Fire and exhaust venting of the heat are issues as well. A room that must be vented 50% of the time to rid the environment of heat from a lamp and heater will not receive as much CO2 as a room that can be kept unvented for hours at a time. However, CO2 generators are the only way to go for large operations.
    Fermentation or vinegar over baking soda will work if you don not have many vent cycles, but if you have enough heat to make constant or regular venting necessary, these methods become impractical. Just pour the vinegar on baking soda and close the door, (you lose your CO2 as soon as the vent comes on). This method leaves a great deal to be desired, since it is not easy to regulate automatically, and requires daily attention. It is possible however, to create CO2 by fermentation, let the wine turn to vinegar, and pour this on baking soda. It is the most cost-effective setup for most closet growers, for whom $400 in CO2 equipment is a bit much to swallow.
    In fermentation, yeast is constantly killing itself; it takes a lot of space. You need a big bin to constantly keep adding water to, so that the alcohol levels will not rise high enough to kill the yeast. Sugar is used quickly this way, and a 10 pound sack will run $3.50 or so and last about 2-3 weeks. This is also difficult to gauge what is happening as far as amounts actually released. A tube out the top going into a jar of water will bubble and demonstrate the amount of CO2 being produced.
    Try sodium bicarbonate mixed with vinegar, 1 tsp: ~30cc- this will gush up all frothy as it releases CO2. do it just before you close the door on your plants. A MUCH cheaper way to provide CO2 is 2 Oz sugar in 2 liters of water in a bottle [sterilized 1st with bleach and water, then rinsed], plus a few cc urine[!] or if you insist, yeast nutrient from a home brewing supplier. Add a brewing yeast, shake up and keep at 25 deg celsius[~70 F] . Over next 2 weeks or so it will brew up about 1/2 Oz CO2 for every Oz sugar used. Keep a few going at once, starting a new one every 3 days or so. With added CO2 growth is phenomenal!!! I personally measured 38cm growth in 8 days under a 250watt HPS bulb[tubular clear, Horizontal mount.
    A good container is a 1 gallon plastic milk jug, with a pin-hole in the cap. Also, the air-lock from a piece of clear tube running into a jar filled with water will keep microbes out and demonstrate the fermentation is working.
    A variation is to spray seltzer water on the plants twice a day. This is not recommended by some authorities, and receives great raves by people who seem to feel it has enhanced their crop. It stands to reason this would work for only a small unvented closet, but may be right for some situations. It could get expensive with a lot of plants to spray. Use seltzer, not club soda, since it contains less sodium that could clog the plants stomata. Wash your plants with straight water after 2 or 3 seltzer sprays. It is a lot of work, and you can not automate it, but maybe that is good! Remember, being with the plants is a beautiful experience, and brings you closer to your spiritual self and the earth. Seltzer is available at most grocery stores. Club soda will work if seltzer water is not available; but it has twice as much sodium in it. A very diluted solution of Miracle Grow can be sprayed on the plant at the same time. One factor of using selzter water is it raises humidity levels. Make sure your venting humidity during the dark cycle, or you could risk fungus and increased internode length.
    CAUTION: Don not spray too close to a hot bulb! Spray downward only, or turn off the lamp first.
    Even though CO2 enrichment can mean 30-100% yield increases, the hassle, expense, space, danger, and time involved can make constant or near constant venting a desirable alternative to enrichment. As long as the plant has the opportunity to take in new CO2 at all times, from air that is over 200 ppm CO2, the plants will have the required nutrients for photosynthesis. Most closets will need new CO2 coming in every two or three hours, minimum. Most citys will have high concentrations of CO2 in the air, and some growers find CO2 injection unnecessary in these circumstances.
    Some growers have reported to High Times that high CO2 levels in the grow room near harvest time lower potency. It may be a good idea to turn off CO2 2 weeks before harvesting.
     
  3. Thanks allot that really helped out. Time to go buy some more yeast and sugar.
     
  4. hmm, how many times do you think that post says C02? lol
     
  5. I know this thread is a couple days old but id like to point out that DIY co2 is a complete waste of time. You will see no improvement in growth what-so-ever. I used four 2 liter bottles connected to eachother back in the day on an aquarium and the ppm wasnt even close to what i needed for aquatic plants, let alone a resource hogsuch as MJ. It stinks and its messy also. If it overflows, then youre in deep shit.

    I settled for a 5lb cylander and a miliwakee regulator and bubble counter. Anything less and youre just fooling yourself. You can get that setup for under $200.

    Co2 is a limiting factor. The addition of it will "unlock" and increase nute uptake exponetially so in order to to get the full effect, your nutes need to be there in extra quantities.

    But hell, be my guest if you want to dick around with DIY co2. Heres the recipe I used:

    3 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast, water filled up to the part of the two liter bottle where starts to taper. Water at 90 degrees F to activate and jumpstart the yeast.

    Hope you like the smell of straight alcohol! :D
     


  6. Thanks fishdude for the info I will have to step my game up on co2. however one reason why this may still work for me is that my growspace is small (70 cubic feet) and only have 5 plants right now. I just dropped 1/2 G on all my other equipment so until I can pay it off I aint buyin any more shit.
    I will be looking for another homemade method and will post anything I find here.
     
  7. i made a home DIY Co2 system for my aquarium and it boosted the plants amazingly well. The trick was to have a top quality diffuser
     
  8. Use tonic water or gas water in a spray bottle! That should be enough if you do it three times per day!:smoke:
     

  9. Actually I just bought a new bike today (so happy:):)) while at the store I saw one of those co2 tire inflators and figured what the hell I can pump up my tires and feed my plants daily with CO2 for 20 bucks+2.50 for 16 grams.
     

  10. I think im gonna keep using the DIY but I also think that they work very different (allot better) for aqueous systems than they do in the air. Having the gas dissolved in water will keep it in the grow space (probly why having a good diffuser worked so well) The more I think about it the more i feel like it wont be significant in a large space with fans blowing all the time.

    hmmm anyone knows of a good deal on a monitor?
     
  11. can't you Co2 enrich the water that you're growing in though?
     
  12. Very Nice! that aint bad at all! I might have to look into that! Seems like a good cheap way to go!

    rep+
     
  13. #13 clos3tgrow3r, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2009
    wish i could :( but im growing in soil.
     
  14. I am using candles in my stealth box, and they seem to boost the growth rate. It makes sense to me, because Fire breathes like humans, it consumes oxygen and gives off CO2. I also dont have any ventilation though, and its a sealed box. But I just light one of those little tealight candles when I wake em up in the morning, and blow it out in the afternoon. Real quick like though, I dont want any of that gas gettin out, lol.
     
  15. #15 ocitown, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2009
    I have read tests which show "Co2 Boost" buckets do work well in small rooms/cabs,I'm not sure of the actual ppm's but it's worth looking into.(says it will boost for 90 days too)

    Roots do not use Co2 at all,they do use DO=dissolved o2.
    Only the actual plant has the ability to use Co2 from stomas under the leaves.

    Soil also needs o2 which is what it gets when you allow it to dry out nearly completely(most water/feed too soon which replaces the o2 uptake with water/food.

    Watering too early is not good,the trick is to water JUST prior to any leaf drooping.

    Using bottled Co2 and a reg ($200) is the BEST way and a meter is worthless unless it has the ability to meter/dose the room keeping ppm's where you want them.

    You can find a Sentinal or CAP on E-Bay used for cheap if you are patient,CAP products will repair/replace or exchange any meter w/o a reciept and well after the warranty is gone.

    That is why i use CAP and no other,their cust. service is #1 as you will see.:D
     

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