These plants have been through a bit of a shock but recovered nicely. No more root rot (!!) Then I overfed them. Man have I learned my lessons... Although I think the trauma of it early on has stunted the flowering. They are autoflowers but after 8 weeks were I decided to jumpstart them and move them from an 18-6 to a 15-9 schedule. Starting to see some white whiskers appear. But over the past week (before the light change), some of the lower leaves started to shrivel up (see photos), particularly those emanating from the lower branches. What's going on here? Is this a lack of light? Should I just remove these branches so whatever nutrients are going towards the stronger parts of the plant? Clearly those ones aren't doing much good... but I don't want to traumatize the plants too much. They are about 12 and 15 inches/ 30cm and 38cm respectively Thanks!
When it comes to nutrients and beginner growers, less is better. It's always harder to deal with an overfed plant than an underfed. Since it's autoflower and looking like that in flower, it's not going to yield much. I suggest you start over.
that look like potassium deficiency. this looks like root associated (rot). this could be due to a high EC but possibly root rot.
It was high EC. I had made it to over 2000 a few weeks back before rinsing roots and flushing. Nutrients were totally out of whack. Ntable in the 500-600 range Don't think it's root rot... roots are in good shape. Question is- do I cut those branches off?
Not all infections are at the roots. A pythium infection occurs in the vascular tissue and clogs up the xylem & phloem. Maybe check the stalks closer. Unfortunately, imo these plants are stunted.
Re pythium it could be the case still and you make a good point. As for stunted, 100% agree. They were traumatized. They recovered nicely but it is entirely possible that that infection never entirely cleared... or did and then stalled. That said, it's curious that it's not the usual pythium droop but bone dry leaves. Just wondering if it's best to chop off those lower branches to push energy to the stronger parts.
and that begs the question why. u can try that. you are having a hard time with it bro. stop. assess. plan. you can keep going, but I think you need to re-evaluate the operation. I (again) recommend looking over the first couple messages: Aeroponic model 4Z0 Stoner Experiment #1745188 rev_2.b aeroponic-model-4z0-stoner-experiment-5263199-rev_3-a.2866132 the biggest factor is reservoir temperature control.
I didn't see if this is DWC or which method, but I've successfully drowned plants in DWC by keeping the reservoir too high and it looks similar to this. What I usually had to do is let them dry out fairly substantially and try to revive them. I would save that as a last ditch effort though. It's always strange to see a plant that has suffered this much damage. It seems well outside the normal realm of things. I always suggest for growers to really look back at the fundamentals. Make sure your pH probe is absolutely calibrated correctly. Measure a solution, calibrate your pen and measure it again. Sometimes they can change a ton within a few minutes and just be completely unreliable. Although, weird pH issues shouldn't cause the overall drooping. Other than water shortage, drooping can be caused by weirdness inside the plant tissue. The particularly strange thing about plant mechanics is that an air bubble within the vascular tissue can really fuck up a plant. It can inhibit the flow of water via transpiration through the tissues. Although it'd be a different mechanism, low oxygen within the plant tissue could cause similar issues I would bet. It all comes back to getting it 'reset' so to speak so that everything is in order. You can calculate the ppm of certain nutrients with the NPK values. Look up a water soluble nutrient calculator and calculate out ~160 ppm of nitrogen from your nutrient solution. That's a good place to start but you can always start lower if that seems like too much.
Well you are correct. This was a huge mess of a grow. The plants have been under enormous stress multiple times. But I learned a ton from this experience. At this point it's damage control if there is anything I can recover, great. On another note I think this is the last autoflower grow I will do. Ever since I used them it's been one problem after the next. For years I never had these problems with feminized seeds. So after root rot, I assiduously used Hydroguard and Voodoo Juice and the plants revived- and grew like crazy. Temps were normal and I put an ice pack in every day to keep it around 16C/60F. Without it the temps would rise to 22C/71F. I never used to flush. Then a few weeks ago I noticed a ton of sediment buildup in the reservoirs. My PPM's were off the charts- apparently 8000. Turns out the EC meter was crap and the real number was 2500 but still very high. (Thank you Blueline for the new pH and EC meters which are far more accurate). I contacted Advanced Nutrients (which is what I use for nutrients) and they told me I needed to flush, clean the residue, remove the salt from the roots by rinsing them and then feed them 1/2 of what was indicated on their nutrient chart. And that I should flush the water weekly. Their rationale is that autoflowers need 1/2 nutrients. They also said to stop being neurotic looking at pH and EC levels. OK, I thought, I'll give it a try. For the past two weeks I followed the instructions of halving nutrients. What has happened is that the EC levels don't go above 500 (even after the 1/2 feed) and the pH goes up every day. Whereas the pH the past was consistently 6 now it pushes 7. Which is making me wonder whether the plants have gone from being overfed to now being underfed. Then there's the issue of the roots. They aren't tangled up, don't smell. They are just nutrient stained and look mummified. And they are breaking off. The good thing is there are new shoots but... I don't know if the ones here in the attached photos are just plain kaput dead or what. Should I trim them? Because there is quite a bit of debris in the basin as you will see which Cannazym is not converting... At this point it's about salvaging what I can. Any input would be super appreciated. Next time I will be far better informed.
I don't like AN nutes. They are overpriced and a lot of people complain. You need to be neurotic about your reservoir pH, EC, and temps. It's ok to ignore for a day or two, but not really. This becomes a discipline. See my attached example below. You should be following others and watching/reading their progress and methods and comparing it with your own. You need a clean res; solution should be changed out each ~ten days. Personally, I clean out the reservoir with 10% bleach (not to plants!), rinse it out, and then run ~1% H2O2/RO water through the system (including plants) to give a quick clean/sterilize.I know ONE grower that doesn't change his res, but he is also an organic hydro guy with tons of experience. You are going to damage your water pump if you continue to use it in close vicinity of the damaged roots. That is not what the roots should look like. I took this pic a couple days ago, and even these are iffy: The problem isn't that you are using auto flowers. You need to get the hang of it and should be maintaining the system and plants every day. I have several notebooks like this: I think you should consider converting your system to an ebb n' flow system. Maybe even consider using some rockwool with it. It would be pretty easy to accomplish. I also think you should keep experimenting with whichever cheap seeds you can find. The cheapest.. until you got this. As far as nutes, have you considered just running an all around 1-powder type nute? Like masterblend? I was going to try out Plant Prod Hydroponic mix on some grows in the future. I think it's much more reasonably priced and maybe even simpler to use.
I very much appreciate your feedback which is honest and no snark. Thanks! All this headache for two frigging plants... UGH! Before now I had not been flushing every 10 days. A learning I had 3 weeks ago. I think the sediment-heavy water really did a massive number on the roots. They had been thriving before then... the roots darkened when I reached the max concentration without monitoring ECs. It's only when I flushed and halved nutrients that all hell broke loose. I know you say automatic isn't the issue but for some reason they have been a royal PIA. As for AN I don't think they are inherently bad, expensive yes, but when I get off-label instructions like "with autoflowers feed 1/2" or "base it on the height of the plant" it becomes incredibly convoluted. Perhaps it is better to just follow the rule of EC and pH.... do you agree? As for the pumps, I agree... the Aerogarden ones frankly suck so I have to dismantle them weekly and get rid of mineral build-up. I will look at the other setups but I live in a jurisdiction where anything more than LED would trigger an unwelcome visit which is why I have to deal with what I have. Pretty certain purchases and posts are monitored as well. But in the meantime, two super practical questions 1) Should I snip the roots? 2) Should I up the nutrients and to what EC level? Thanks as always.
no, but you can try bleaching out the res first and using h2o2 flush as I mentioned above. I would leave the 1% (final volume) solution for at least an hour. at this point, I'm not sure what to tell you. Have at least 1000 uS solution. I kinda answered in the sense as I posted my last week log records for you. I'm finding with autos I am backing off on nitrogen during transition is important, but I'm getting confused because I was using a different source of calmag (ie. calimagic). The EC is going to matter which way you feed, how often you feed, the environment temp and humidity, etc. It's not a concrete thing usually. A grower needs to read the plant and act accordingly and yes, grow and learn. Read the log? i messed up diluting the solution (!) and got harsh iron deficiency on the clones, also N-tox for using too much micro. etc. I lose crops and am still learning as well... forever permanuub
Those roots look scary! I've done DWC in the past and I'd never had to worry about reservoir temperatures. I even did a few buckets of tomatoes outside and the water on the inside was hot but the plants were fine. Granted, I was refilling them almost daily. Otherwise, indoor DWC never needed a chiller or anything either. Regular room temperatures somewhere in the 70s never cause issues, especially with the right color buckets. I don't flush either. I think flushing is more or less a fix for over fertilizing but otherwise, I never do it. I've even run a terribly long 6 month cultivar on the same reservoir without ever changing it. I just topped it off. It worked really well but I'm not sure if I'd suggest it. If you can empty and refill every so often, it can help. Although, I think there is some mechanism that happens with plants that have been in a solution for a while. I think nutrient dosages need to be referenced in a different way. Recently, I've been discovering that Nitrogen is truly the driver throughout a plant's life, even in flower. Which, it shouldn't be terribly surprising considering nitrogen is the majority of the air on this planet. For what it's worth, quite a few research studies all reference nitrogen ppm at 160-190 throughout flowering to be best for yield. I've been kind of working with that in my own grow and it's been working well. NPK ratio seems to be best around 20-10-20 although some variation is fine. Which begs the question 'what's with bloom NPK ratios'? I have to be honest, I don't check pH or EC at all for anything. I haven't for years now. I feel like the correct NPK ratio is more important than a perfect pH. I've also read some publications that all kind of converge on a pH between 4-8 is acceptable and yield isn't greatly altered. There are some physiological changes in the plant due to different pH like branching and overall height but some plants don't really suffer until you get way out of whack. Hell, I even found it in a book called pH and plants that was published in the 40's. For example, aquaponics are usually well above 7 to help rid the solution of ammonia. My regimen is stupid simple. I use a single part formula, either CNS17 or Maxi-grow, and I calculate out 160-190 ppm of nitrogen. I put it in a bucket of tap or rain water, mix it and use it. No meters or anything else mixed in the bucket ever. No cal-mag or anything. That's what I start to feed my plants. I suppose it's important to note that I grow a ton of different species of plants. At this point, my tent is full of garden vegetables which are getting the same treatment and they seem happy. I have quite a few different flowers and a cubic fuck ton of house plants. They all get the same exact solution. There's not a single one showing any leaf issues or overfeeding. Plus, I'm using it for both Coco and soil plants without any problems. Even the tomato cuts I was rooting in coco haven't cared about the strong feeds. Even small clones don't seem to mind the high feeds. Granted, what works for me may not work for you.