What we want from Occupy Wall Street

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Virtue 7, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. ‎10 Things We Want
    A Proposal for Occupy Wall Street
    Submitted by Michael Moore

    1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).

    2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.

    3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.

    4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.

    5. Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.

    6. Reorder our nation's spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week). This will re-open libraries, reinstate band and art and civics classes in our schools, fix our roads and bridges and infrastructure, wire the entire country for 21st century internet, and support scientific research that improves our lives.

    7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.

    8. Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.

    9. Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company's workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can't run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world's leading manufacturing exporter.)

    10. We, the people, must pass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:

    a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.

    b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.

    c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a "second bill of rights" as proposed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.
     
  2. Thanks for taking the time to post this, but what good would any of it do?
     
  3. #4 Virtue 7, Nov 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2011
    It's just something I thought people would enjoy reading.

    I see a lot of "OWS doesn't know what they want" around the city so I just wanted to show this. Didn't take much time.. Just a copy and paste :wave:



    That's silly. There are plenty of 1%ers that occupy. Just because they make money doesn't mean they don't understand the movement.. Which you might not? ,:confused_2: It isn't capitalism that people are pissed about.. It's the insane laws that help corporations greed.

    You should look into it, dude.. Before you post such things.. ;)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGL-Ex1CD1c[/ame]

    This video makes the 99% look pretty stupid :laughing:

    but the point is that the movement isn't necessarily about people mad at successful rich people
     

  4. Ohhhhhhh. See I was confused because they split it into 99/1%, seeing as how most of the 99 are upset with the 1.

    What are these ''insane laws'' you speak of?
     
  5. #6 Virtue 7, Nov 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2011
    Well, for starters you could read #1 of the OP

    Maybe not a law.. but an outrages tax cut.

    And you could also read #3 of the OP

    and sorry, I wasn't trying to sound like an ass or anything in the other post :eek: I just see pictures like that and it kind of irks me. My bad.
     

  6. No need to apologize, I posted that picture because as soon as I read #1 I just felt like M. Moore didn't know his shit.

    Although the cuts were large and drove revenue down sharply, they are not the main cause of the sizable deficit that exists today. In 2007, well after the tax cuts took effect, the budget deficit stood at 1.2 percent of GDP. By 2009, it had increased to 9.9 percent of the economy. The Bush tax cuts didn't change between 2007 and 2009, so clearly something else is to blame.

    Democrats balked at the tax cuts at the time, saying the country couldn't afford them. They were and are wrong. The country could not afford to not pass them! We would have been OK regardless, but there are plenty of people worse off than us, where this money is going to mean the difference between lunch and no lunch, between turning the heat on or freezing under multiple layers.
     
  7. I'm all for democratically electing to change how things run, and democratically amending the constitution. I wish we could start by getting the filth out that is running the government right now
     
  8. So I look at the list and here's my thoughts.

    #1. I'm against taxes in general, but because someone earning more than me shouldn't pay less taxes then me, so I'll give this one a thumbs up.

    #2. Exported labor tariff? Hard to grasp, but what the fuck, we really need the money.

    Then I get to #3, and here's where you lose me. I don't want to pay any social security. I didn't get the opportunity to vote for it and I sure as heck don't want my retirement funds managed by government bureaucrats. After that I stop reading.
     
  9. most of those made sense
     
  10. I'd rather stick to intelligent demands like these:


    1. End the Federal Reserve: Since the Federal Reserve was instituted in 1913, the dollar has lost over 95% of its purchasing power and has caused vicious boom and bust cycles throughout the 20th century. Big-spending politicians and politically favored bankers love the Fed’s loose monetary policy since it allows them to print as much money as they want to help finance their pet projects without directly taxing the general populace. Unfortunately, the general public becomes victim to the insidious inflation tax which eats away all of their savings. What is truly needed is a system of competing currencies that is recognized and accepted as such by individuals through the actions of the market without the coercion of the state.

    2. End all corporate subsidies: Corporate subsidies encourage rent-seeking behavior and also create substantial distortions in the marketplace. If we want to eliminate the corporate revolving door in government, destroying the piggy bank of subsidies is a good first step. Businesses will now have to actually compete for consumers in order to stay afloat, as opposed to constantly feeding off of the trough of taxpayer funds.

    3. Restore Freedom of Association in Labor Relations: Government should step out of labor relations altogether and allow for people to freely and peacefully contract with each other. This is by no means an attack on unions. If anything, when voluntaryism replaces statism, labor unions would be more organic based on the models of Lions Club or Rotary Club organizations or Japanese style enterprise unions. These labor models simply encourage people to get together and act in unison, which in turn fosters an environment of worker-employer camaraderie. Workers will truly have a say in these respective organizations without having to worry about top-down government actors potentially co-opting these organizations.

    4. End the War on Drugs: The War on Drugs has been going on for more than three decades and has resulted in the incarceration of millions of people for non-violent crimes. The black markets created by these misguided policies have created incentives for violent criminal syndicates to step into these markets and make ludicrous profits. This helps finance their criminal activities that have completely destabilized countries such as Mexico and Colombia over the past two decades. The War on Drugs has also empowered the prison-industrial complex, which benefits tremendously from the increasing number of prisoners they can get from the criminalization of drug use. Likewise, the drug war has resulted in the militarization of police departments and has diverted law enforcement resources that would otherwise be used to combat violent crimes. It has also led to heinous violations of civil liberties across the board. Drug problems used be handled through the community instead of through coercion, as practically all drugs were legal during the 19th century. Ending the drug war would incentivize voluntary civil society institutions to tackle these problems on a local level.

    5. Restore Free Markets in Education: There is no doubt that education costs have skyrocketed the past decades, but that has been the result of government intervention in the education. The antidote to this disease is a free market in education. Abolishing the Department of Education would be a great start. Parents should be able to choose from private schools, religious schools, apprenticeships, homeschooling co-ops, and online education programs like Academic Earth and Khan Academy. In a free market for education, the customers are the parents and children, and they have the money and means to choose the education that they want instead of the government controlling what they will get. This system would also empower teachers to set up their own schools and become entrepreneurs in education, which would enable the latest innovations in educational services to be more readily available to the general public. Likewise, in the higher education sector markets must also be allowed to function. Some of the largest misallocations in human capital occur in higher education and this has resulted from outdated models of education that benefit tenured professors and administrators and the push for making college education a “right” for all. To solve this, top-down accreditation agencies should be abolished and instead let the market create more market-oriented rating agencies that send signals to consumers about which educational institutes provide the best services at the lowest cost. With education going the online route, you will start to see the medieval era model of education turn into a more open-source model of education that allows for everyone to have access to even the most esoteric forms of knowledge at very little to no cost.

    6. Restore Free Markets in Health Care: The American Medical Association, which for almost 150 years has effectively cartelized the allocation of medical resources, and government involvement in the insurance industry has resulted in the rising costs of healthcare. To solve this problem, there must be a free market in drugs where people can freely import from foreign countries and not have to worry about cumbersome bureaucracies like the FDA preventing potentially lifesaving medicine from entering the market. In a system of free market healthcare, instead of the FDA there would be competing drug certifying companies on the market relying entirely on their reputation for good testing since they would not be backed by the state. Individual doctors, patients and insurers will decide which certifying agencies they trust and which they do not. Other reforms would include removing the state monopoly on medical licensing which would allow for competing businesses or nonprofits to provide certification. Shorter patent terms on drugs and medical technology would also help tremendously. This would enable producers to learn from each other’s research at a faster rate, thus allowing for an increase in the supply of vital drugs and devices while accelerating the overall pace of research.

    7. Revert to a Non-interventionist Foreign Policy: With hundreds of bases in over 150 countries, the United States is completely overstretched. The U.S must close down all these bases and end the War on Terror in order to truly bring about peace and prosperity. The political establishment’s pursuit of foreign policy interventionism over the past 50 years has resulted in the loss of countless American lives and civil liberties. It has also led to the creation of a “vampire economy” in which the military complex sucks out a substantial amount of wealth in the economy that would otherwise be put into more productive sectors of the economy. By ending these wars and closing down these bases, there would be a major economic stimulus, as taxpayers dollars that are usually spent on military projects would actually go back to the average American’s pockets to be spent on more productive sectors of the economy that have actual demand.

    8. End Coercive Taxation: The income tax and other federal taxes have enabled the US government to explode into an enormous Bismarckian warfare/welfare state. These revenue generating mechanism have created a gigantic trough of money readily available to corrupt politicians to spend to their heart’s content. By the same token, these taxes are immoral and allow for the government to arbitrarily pick between which groups to plunder and which groups to dole out the taxpayer funded goodies. All of these taxes should be abolished. The federal government must only generate money from user fees and reasonable excise taxes. When the government can generate tons of revenue, it can also spend out the wazoo, especially on misguided foreign policy and social welfare programs. The beast must be put on a diet.

    9. Let Young People Opt out of Entitlement Programs: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid have created a total social welfare boondoggle where young people will get the short end of the stick. As the baby boomer’s retire en masse, young people face the daunting task of footing the bill for their parent’s social programs. Not only is this immoral, but it will create massive tax burdens for the younger generations. Young people should be allowed to opt-out of these programs and actually take ownership of their savings without depending on the state. As more and more youth opt out, these programs will eventually be gradually phased out.

    10. Restructure Business Incorporation: If we want to truly create a separation of corporation and state, there must be a push towards a more organic, free market manner of incorporating business. It is no surprise how even the smallest government interaction with business gives the government the opportunity completely get involved in business. All forms limited liability should be conducted contractually as opposed to the traditional top-down model of incorporating companies. All government sponsored liability caps should be done away with. Ultimately, there would be credit rating agencies to guide investors in knowing which companies would protect their investments the best. These institutions could also incorporate these companies through market means so that they can partake in interstate commerce. The only legitimate government involvement with these type of businesses should be court related with regards to dealing with contracts and torts. The goal is to essentially remove the government imposed corporate veil and look for market alternatives independent of the state to form businesses and handle liability and risk.
     
  11. i agree with all of it except number 3 should have an opt out clause you shouldnt be forced to pay social security...

    to me the ows movement is similar to ron pauls stance i just think he goes more into detail and has a fully thought out plan right now

    to me everything is about stopping corporations from lining our politicans pockets, not giving them (corps) the same rights as people, and limiting the federal government thus restoring power the states where each state can individually vote on its laws,social programs,education etc. like its supposed to be
     
  12. is Michael Moore trying to say that people who make a profit on stock trades don't pay taxes on it? :confused:

    i want his accountant..
     

  13. Micheal Moore as usual doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
     
  14. Oh ok, gotcha op.

    I guess I'm one of those people who say that the OWS people don't know what they want. The reason I say that is because I have seen this list.
     
  15. As an OWS supporter I just want to see one thing. For the government to stop cutting social programs while giving tax cuts to the super wealthy.
     

  16. he is far from the 1 percent.
     
  17. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l97SuV6DThQ]Michael Moore End Capitalism Not The Fed, Peter Schiff Rebuttal at Ron Paul Rally - YouTube[/ame]

    If you don't get rid of the Federal Reserve, the same banking interests will run the show. They dictate what domestic and foreign policy is going to be, because they are in charge of who gets the money, and how it's paid for. When you have the power to loan or print however much money you want, and give it out to whomever, there is no law that you aren't exempt from. Trying to regulate the Federal Reserve is futile as well, the people that can print trillions on a whim can buy off whomever they please.

    Your average person can be bought for a lot less then they claim. Your typical macho man always spouts the "Well I wouldn't go gay unless I was paid a million $" or whatever, truth is most people sell out for a small fraction of whatever number they claim.

    So when you are in charge of currency, you can buy anyone and everyone.

    Banks will still be too big to fail, will still get bailed out, your money will continue to lose value, and everyone's standard of living will continue to go down (except for the 0.1%)

    Not to mention countries that don't want to use the worthless currency will still be invaded or bullied into using the worthless currency as to maintain the full spectrum dominance of the 0.1%.

    The fact that OWS ignores this is a HUGE red flag. Not all OWS people ignore the fed, but the ones that control it's image perception and it's stated mission objectives do. This should cause suspicion of all individuals sympathetic to the OWS movement.
     
  18. #20 Sovereign Psyche, Nov 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2011
    ‎ Taxes on businesses makes it much harder for the competition to compete with the large businesses already in power. You are discretely hurting yourself.

    ‎ There will be several ways around this. For one, how can you say the business "moved" the jobs overseas if they never existed over here in the first place? It would end up being a long complicated law with plenty of loopholes (likely for certain elite businesses). Furthermore, what will it accomplish if the business's overhead remains the same? It will only create a larger poor class and redistribute money into the people who can actually find jobs. Next you will have to instate an employment quota.

    ‎ I'm with Dr. Paul on this one. Young Americans should be able to opt out of social security.

    ‎ I don't know enough about the Glass-Steagall act to discuss.

    ‎ I doubt that'd get us anywhere, but sure.

    ‎ I think the Federal government should give away most of their money to the states to decide on what to do with it. The Federal government isn't supposed to be handling any of these issues, and to reinstate the Constitution we must get the Federal government out of these issues. I think the Federal government should be paid directly by the States, and if they decide to go to war, the States have to pay for it. (Speaking of which, the Senate should be brought back as the States house.)

    ‎ "Free?" See last quote.

    ‎ Government has no place in this issue; it has historically created a worse problem when it comes to it. In fact, if we got the government out of it, we would likely be more inclined to reduce emissions and find alternative fuels.

    ‎ I'll have to look into Germany's law, but I'll tell you right now, I smell something fishy.

    ‎ I don't know why he'd want to amend the Constitution if he is for not following other parts of it. :confused: Oh, right. He, like most other people, probably hasn't read it.

    ‎ I'm all for fixing our electoral system. I think repealing the 16th and 17th amendments would be a great start.

    ‎Impossible
    ‎ I can't see this going well. I see many people running for office simply to get benefits. (Oh they can only spend it on their campaigns?) Well who is going to manage that? Are you going to audit every person that runs? This all sounds very expensive.
    ‎ Lol, sure, w/e.
    ‎ I don't see what this will accomplish.
    ‎ Yes, let's go back a century. This is a backwards idea.

    ‎ Corporations are not people. The interests of the corporations (except crony ones) are always in the interest of the people.

    Pay bureaucrats to give money to the highest bidder to do a job unsatisfactorily? No thanks.
     

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