I have personally never had a problem with pH being too high or too low, but it could be due to my zoning, layering and spiking methods, you dont want a monochromatic soil mix all throughout the grow container because beneficial bacteria and fungi thrive at different pH ranges, one prefers slightly acidic soils, one prefers nuetral/slightly alkaline soil, though they can still survive outside their preferred environments. Over using any soil amendment can have ill effects, its all about balance, but ive never seen my own soil mix pH go over 7 and fuck up my plants due to dolomitic limestone. whats the pH of dolomitic limestone itself anyway? Thats something i havent actually looked up yet haha.
Usually i put my current pot into the next one before transplant and get the new pots filled with dirt and layer/zone around the area roughly my rootball/transplanted media will be and leave it for about 7 days before transplanting to allow for the amendments to break down a bit and prevent any burning or slow/sub par root development, that way when i actually transplant i just pop them out of the old pot and into the new one, add a tiny bit more soil and water. Also i find its better that way because it lets the beneficials colonize the grow media into their more prefered "zones" and by the time the roots find the long term strong nutes at the bottom of the container they are broken down enough to not harm the plant.
the danger of excessive liming http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/ExcessiveLime_kinsey_June01.pdf
Interesting, the only deficiency/problem i ever have to deal with is usually a Mg or P problem and easily fixable, though i proactively try to prevent this before it occurs or even shows signs for a problem. Never had problem with using lime, gypsum, powdered and crushed oyster shell or other rock minerals, which i use. Good to know though for future reference if i ever do run into a problem with over liming.
Minerals/elements used to adjust a soils pH like Calcium Carbonate, elemental Calcium, Oyster Shell Powder, Gypsum (elemental Calcium & Sulphur) do not alter anything as far as a chemical reaction. Which explains the fool's errand of mixing Dolomite Lime in water to 'fix the pH' which is usually the run-off. Even sillier if that's possible. LD
Luckily i have never run into soil pH problems so ive never had to try and get it in check thankfully haha and my R/O water comes out at a pH of usually 6.4-6.6, when i have new filters or dont need to change any of them any time soon im usually right spot on 6.5 which is perfect for my situation since i just add water. I saw it at 6.7 once but i had to change the carbon filters badly.
Our water comes from snow melt from the Mt. Hood National Forest. It's better than any bottled water from the grocery store. Start with organic Sphagnum Peat Moss and not Peat Moss, run legitimate humus in the mix and call it a day. No Dolomite Lime (Magnesium Limestone), no Hydrated Lime (you have to wonder what idiot came up with this one), Epsom Salts, Cal-Mag crap, etc. The microbes will figure it out without spikes or layering or this or that. LD Here's an example of how it works.....
I dont like using any kind of peat moss, comes from peat bogs that have been there for hundreds if not thousands of years and isnt a sustainable resource. Its ok to use dolomitic limestone as long as u arent using a shitload everytime u mix your soil if you recycle your soil. Yeah the microbes will figure it out without the zoning/layering but in nature you will never find a monochromatic soil mix, so they will thrive and be happier with the zoning/layering then a monochromatic soil mix.
I know that it may just be one study but it's got some pretty good info in it. It definitely made me rethink my use of coir compared to sphagnum moss... http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf I am fairly positive that some peat bogs regenerate themselves faster. Those in higher altitudes regenerate more slowly and are not harvested from (but don't quote me on that haha). From Utah State University... It is a shame to see them harvesting dolomitic limestone from ancient cliffs and caves!
I do know that a good portion of the canadian peat moss they harvest is from bogs that have been around for awhile and will take atleast 50 years to make any noticeable recovery (not all of them of course, some could take more or less time). I just prefer using coir personally, as long as you check the company and its sources (for any product really, including the dolomitic limestone) and make sure its truly using sustainable practices then you should be ok. Also peat moss holds heat for a really long time so if you live in areas where its really warm and you have too much peat moss in your mix it can slow root growth due to really high root temperature, also i recycle my soil mix and peat moss can really bring your pH levels down when recycling your soil. If you have a sustainable source for peat moss and it works for you then by all means use it, but personally i like coir, as long as you rinse it thoroughly with R/O water or its pre-rinsed. I also like that coir is a more nuetral pH where as peat moss is usually slightly acidic.
[quote name='"Cryptlord9999"'] I do know that a good portion of the canadian peat moss they harvest is from bogs that have been around for awhile and will take atleast 50 years to make any noticeable recovery (not all of them of course, some could take more or less time). I just prefer using coir personally, as long as you check the company and its sources (for any product really, including the dolomitic limestone) and make sure its truly using sustainable practices then you should be ok. Also peat moss holds heat for a really long time so if you live in areas where its really warm and you have too much peat moss in your mix it can slow root growth due to really high root temperature, also i recycle my soil mix and peat moss can really bring your pH levels down when recycling your soil. If you have a sustainable source for peat moss and it works for you then by all means use it, but personally i like coir, as long as you rinse it thoroughly with R/O water or its pre-rinsed. I also like that coir is a more nuetral pH where as peat moss is usually slightly acidic.[/quote] All very good points man. I've used Black Gold and Canna for a while now and loved both products. I just found this paper from USU while doing some research and thought that it was quite interesting. It sounds like Coir may have a few negative qualities also. It just got me thinking.
Right now im making my own EWC, kelp meal (collected from west coast of BC), compost, alfalfa meal (grow alfalfa in my soil mix after i do a cannabis grow run to help rejuvenate the soil a little bit and get some alfalfa meal out of it too =P), chicken manure composting (collected from nearby small poultry farm), basically the only products i actually have to purchase for my soil mix is my greensand, my rock minerals (soft rock phosphate, gypsum, dolomitic limestone, azomite etc), organic rice, bone meal, blood meal (be careful with your blood/bone meal source) and guano, and then my molases/fish hydroslate. All the products that i do have to buy are atleast super cheap for the amount i get and last forever lol.
I think when people look at his recipe and think "too hot", it's because they don't know how it's used... it's layered and that recipe is for the hot layer... so there is also soil in the pot that is less hot. I find that most of the people who criticize what he does don't read what he says, and don't understand what he's talking about in full. His book is coming out soon, and hopefully that will clear it up for some people. Of coarse there will always be people who will criticize without even understanding it first.
It doesn't FIX the Ph, it's a buffer, it helps it stay where it is, where ever you put it from everything else. It works very good at that, no need to adjust ph of anything ever. (not your tea, not your water (use R.O. w/ carbon filter, or just carbon filter), or soil)... and you don't check by the runoff, you use a soil PH Meter.
With Dolomite lime there is definitely an ideal amount. Nearly all amendments can fuck up all sorts of things if not used in the proper amount. (proper amount, meaning what works for the plant.) For a 4 month grow in the same 2 gallon container the PH (measured how it should be measured, with a SOIL PH METER) ranged from 6.5-6.8 in my Roots Organics Soil (which contains Dolomite lime for the purpose of buffering soil PH, aka getting the Ph to remain stable).
[quote name='"TloGrow"'] What your hearing about lime is total bullshit, it does not drive the Ph above 7 unless you over use it, there is an amount that must be used like most amendments, nearly all amendments can fuck up all sorts of things if not used in the proper amount. (proper amount, meaning what works for the plant.) If it was true that dolamite lime did that than the soil that I use would have a PH above 7, but for a 4 month grow in the same 2 gallon container the PH (measured how it should be measured, with a SOIL PH METER) ranged from 6.5-6.8 in my Roots Organics Soil (which contains Dolomite lime for the purpose of buffering soil PH, aka getting the Ph to remain stable). Perhaps the people you heard this from, do not know how to use dolomite lime properly, or do not own a soil ph meter.[/quote] How is over liming possible when using a store bought soil mix? Of course Roots Organic adds the correct ratios of dolomitic lime to their mixes. I think the discussion of over liming applies to people mixing their own soil really, but maybe LumperDawgz just doesn't own the right type of PH Meter or doesn't understand how to use it correctly hahaha. Although I do agree with you about the importance of using the correct amounts of amendments.
If your using our friend dolomite lime, I take it you use it to stabilize the ph, and provide calcium and magnesium. At least that's what I used it for. But I have found like most things in organic growing diversity works better. I still have a little dolomite lime in my mix but I also have azomite, gypsum, soft rock phosphates, crab meal, bone meal, and oyster shell powder. And if the need arises and it most likely won't, epsom salt. These guys working together will stabilize the ph better than lime alone ever did for me. Who hasn't started a grow at one ph and ended it at a much higher ph? We're you using dolomite lime? Isn't that why you use it? To stabilize ph? And to take it further, there may be even more benefit by using these minerals in the composting process. I guess there helpfull in forming humic crumbs, that you find in high end compost.......MIW
Like MIW above, I use a lot of amendments (many of which MIW listed above) in addition to using DL. But I cut way way back on the amount of DL I'm using and changed how it's applied. What I am doing is phasing it out. I don't like working with it and am confident I don't need it. However since I have some DL left over from the good ol days of growing, I'm utilizing it. I make thermo compost and add DL then. Thermo compost, once cured, feeds my worm bin for further nutrient cycling of all inputs, as well as going directly to my soil mix. Ewc's from my worm bin also go into my soil mix and is used as a top dressing when needed. No DL goes into my final soil mix.
I dont use DL. I havent since i started Organics and hope to never need to. The only place I think that i would consider using it is in/on my horse manure/wood shavings that I get out of the horse stall before it hits the compost heap. Even then... jerry.