What is I ?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by METARON, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. If you decided to stay home all day inside without going out, it wouldn't be the same as going outside and staying out all day.
    But what is the difference?? 
    Being outside exposes you to a lot more information. Like people, places, smells, visuals - all kinds of different stimulating things.
    That's a fact. But that's not to say that being inside all day doesn't have its stimulating qualities.
    There's just a whole lot less things to be stimulated by.
    What I'm trying to get at:
    "The self," "you," "I." I would say 99% of your mind is created and put together by the influence of everybody and every experience that is outside of yourself.
    Every thing outside of yourself IS you - for it created you. And the mind craves further influence and stimulation from elsewhere like a drug.
     
    Is one dependent on a brain? Or is one dependent on the world around one's self? Or is it both?
     
     
     

     
  2. what is the 1%? the brain itself? general physiological functions? It has to be both , since our personality i shaped by our interaction with the world , thus meaning that the "I" is the product of the external and internal enviroment.
     
  3.  
    I would say that the 1% is our free-will. But that 1% has a big impact.
     
    We would agree that it is both - internal, external.
     
    How much control do We have on our reality? That 1% is our ticket to creation!
     
  4. Yes we are dependent on our brains and our hearts or we would die as an imbecile. We need the outside world or we can become vegatables or get really weird or something. I say it's both.
     
  5. 'What is 'I'?'
     
    You. Me. That other guy.
     
  6. I would agree that our "free will", our conscious decision making is a very small part of our mind. I also believe that every single aspect of your life, your memories, your emotions, your logic and reason, your personality, your dreams, everything that encompasses "I" has a physical location in the brain. You need outside stimuli to stimulate your brain. Granted you're exposed to stimuli pretty much 24/7, if you're inside all the time, the parts you stimulate will be similar. When you go outside and experience new things, you'll stimulate different areas. You want to be stimulated cause it's like exercise for your brain. The parts you work and use more become more efficient and quicker to respond.
     
    Sounds like you're a hermit (I am too most of the time) and looking to justify staying inside all the time. You want a healthy mix of alone time and time when you're out and about and physically experiencing new things. If you constantly experiencing new things, you'll probably end up multitasking a lot more, which can actually lead to ADD. So it's all about balance, but there's only one person who can tell you what you need to balance.
     
    As for reality, your subconscious plays a huge part in how you see reality. Cool thing is, you can train your brain, use your consciousness to train your subconscious. For example, aside from multitasking possibly leading to ADD/lack of focus while focusing (meditating) can help improve focus, people with social anxiety/fear of interacting with others.The majority of that is subconscious, based off the experiences you had in life. You can train your brain by playing a face game, wish I could find one for free on the internet, but you look at a group of faces in a 4x4 grid, 16 faces. Only 1 is smiling, the other 15 are frowning or angry. You train yourself by finding and focusing on the smiling face. It's not instant, it takes time, but after so long, you'll more than likely have a lil, if not a lot, less social anxiety.
     
    Using your consciousness to train your subconscious, so that your subconscious can run your life.. It's awesome.
     
  7.  
    Great reply.
    I'm on the same page as you, I believe.
     
    I've been training myself to stop thinking negative, intrusive thoughts by recognizing them - and imagining those thoughts, as soon as they happen, are being whisked away by the atmosphere. Strange technique, but effective.
     
    I'll admit that I'm somewhat of a hermit. Half the day, at my job, I'm socializing, the other half I'm by myself.
     
    It seems that the brain is a bridge between everything. It's just a knob of a door leading to infinity. 
    I grew up thinking that I was an individual. Now, it feels like Everything around me IS me. And so I treat everything as I would treat myself.
     
    Sometimes I feel like I don't really exist as an individual. We all make each other up. Even that piece of trash in the corner has a profound effect. What effect is that? Don't know, but I know it is effecting me to some degree.
     
     
    So to avoid being a vegetable and acting really weird, you would have to have some level of interaction with your environment.
    I don't want become like that. It scares me.
    You can say that I am hopelessly dependent on the things that stimulate me. Good or bad.
    A druggie of reality.
     
  8. #8 Boats And Hoes, Aug 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2013
    The "I" is the immaterial reflector-contemplator... u've seen and experienced with ur eyes ur own physical body, yet have u even seen and experienced with ur eyes the thing thinking about seeing and experiencing ur own physical body?
     
  9.  
    I like to "flow" with my surroundings too. I do it in front of people, but the majority of it is when no other people are around. Seemingly odd, erratic movements to make way for the flow of how things are. Like when I am walking with other people around, I'd rather flow around them than have them flow around me. Mainly cause I know how fucking annoying it is when someone walks in front of you without a care in the world, yet I don't want to annoy someone the same way. It's personal projection, but oh well. Most people who don't care that they walked in front of you and interrupted your train of thought/movement probably won't care if you do it to them.
     
    Probably feels like you're close to the coveted "ego death" without consciously taking the steps to get there. I personally don't believe a real ego death is possible, without dying, but nonetheless it's a word to help describe a feeling or lack of. I have a feeling that it's a growing trend, based off of how people experience the world now. It's much more open than before, you can find out and learn about other people and cultures without even leaving your home. Now we have more and more people learning about the thoughts and emotions of other people all around the world and the more people focus on the world around them, the less they'll focus on themselves. Only problem is, once you do it for so long (like the multitasking) it ends up getting written in your subconscious. It's a gift of hyper awareness, but sometimes a curse of not being able to focus on your own wants and needs.
     
    As for the piece of trash example, while we're kind of on the same page, seems like you're going about it more metaphysically and I more physical. Sure, the trash has energy, some kind of frequency, but it's on a level that has no physical impact on you. The only effect it has is the effect you let it have. You could argue everything is connected through some kind of quantum state, your shifting electron affecting another electron galaxies away, but if you're being effected by everything, it's pretty much the same as being effected by nothing. Say you're submerged in water, only every single water molecule has a magnetic force outside of the forces holding it together. It wouldn't really effect you any different than normal water since you're being pushed and pulled from every single angle possible, cancelling out each other. Not every level of energy can actively or passively affect all the other levels.
     
    But I will sit there and think about all the molecules spinning and interacting in the trash; air molecules violently smashing into it even though it looks still. Mainly when I am bored or want to zone out from things that are actually effecting me, but I can't think or feel like it's energy is effecting me outside of disgust from seeing a piece of trash outside a trashcan.
     
  10. To live what i would deem as a normal life, yes. Anything less would be weird.
     
  11. I think the brain is dependent on being "formed" i.e, what our environment or society tells us what to/how to act/what makes you successful etc
     
    Is this real life? Honestly though, its crazy if you really get deep into it,
     
  12. #12 Boats And Hoes, Aug 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
     
    Where is the one located who autonomously believes and puts forward that everything has a physical location? For no part of the brain or body, i.e., the eyes, arms, ears, etc., can't think about it being located in physical space (a physical brain on a platter cannot think about it being a brain on a platter), only a cognitive reflector can reflect upon the manifestations of the brain and appearances of the eyes, arms, ears, etc., and autonomously conclude that each part of construct has a physical location...
     
    So, where is the one who cognitively wills and produces, by its own volition, thoughts about its physical being? About whether or not it has a physical location.
     
    U say everything has a physical location in the brain, as if everything already has a chemical constitution and is stored away in some chamber, yet where is the one who puts into motion new chemical constitutions/processes... Certain thoughts trigger certain processes, if I were to get really mad and think about something I consider really wrong, a certain neural process-brain function, i.e., chemical interaction, would start in my brain, yet where is the one who started this process, by thinking, in the first place?
     
    P.S.
    I understand thought occurs in the frontal lobe... yet, that's not my question. My questions is... where is and what is the thing that puts into motion certain processes occurring in the frontal lobe.

     
  13. #13 Boats And Hoes, Aug 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
    What is causing the electrical and chemical processes which occur when one is dreaming?? Surely it is not EXTERNAL stimuli...

    What is experiencing the electrical and chemical processes which occur when one is dreaming?? Surely it is not something EXTERNAL to my physical body that's experiencing the dream...

     
  14. You ever wonder why you edit almost all your posts after you post? Cause your consciousness is trying to make a post, but is relying on your subconscious to fill it in. Your subconscious has a lot going on too, so you get an incomplete thought. As your consciousness is diverting more energy to the subconscious areas responsible for your thought process, you can refine and process your thoughts more, coming back to an edit.

    You're making the mistake that your consciousness has the most control in your brain and of your body, it doesn't. Most of our processing is subconscious, our complex consciousness comes from evolution. The ability to plan and organize our thoughts and memories proved to be extremely useful in our evolution, and that's what our consciousness is, well part of it. The neural network in our brains are extremely complex. Billions or neurons and each neuron can have up to 10,000 connections to other neurons. That's enough to circle the Earth a few times if laid end to end.. That's a lot of complex, intermingled processing.

    Do I know where the 'I' comes from specifically in the brain? Nope, and it'll probably be awhile til we have the right technology to map the brain in full. Not only that, doesn't matter if you believe in God, or the spiritual realm, makes sense to think that if that all was true, then there should be a physical location in the brain for the connection to come through.

    Every do something and think "why did I do that?" It's because your subconscious carried out the action while your consciousness was busy thinking and planning something else. You use your consciousness, your thought processing, to guide your subconscious and then your subconscious takes care of the rest.
     
  15. Your body blocks out a lot of the subconscious processing while sleeping and dreaming, but doesn't always work right. If you're dreaming and someone is talking to you while you're asleep, a lot of times their words will come into your dream. Sometimes a signal from the brain makes it out too, causing you to kick, punch, or talk in your sleep. So external stimuli can happen during a dream, cause your subconscious to react.
     
  16. #16 Boats And Hoes, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
     
    1.) This does nothing but prove that we are limited and partial in our perspective... not that we can't freely choose and decide what to believe or what not to, to go left or right (sure, the subconscious can furnish the reflector with data and ideas of why he or she should go left or right, but, nonetheless, there is an autonomous "I" that can choose to go, by way of free thought, either left or right). The "I" contemplates and surveys over the data collected by the brain and senses... it may not always express itself in a way that may be adequate, or it maybe impulsive (due to the conditions of a given situation), but, nonetheless, it is expressing itself, by its own volition, i.e., it's reflective choices and beliefs (even if they're not well thought out).
     
    2.) The self-consciousness "I" doesn't control most of the functions and processes of the brain and body, this is understood, but the self-conscious "I" can control how it itself views, conceptually, the brain and body; the "I" can choose to believe it's a creation of Divine grace or that it's a product of evolution, or it can believe in evolutionary creationism (can it not?). The point is... the "I" can freely decide and choose what's real, or what it believes to be real, without being confined by physical and mechanistic laws. How do u think the placebo effect works?? The pill does nothing, but the self-conscious thoughts about the pill can totally create and trigger processes which were not present or manifest before the thought of pill making u better, i.e., the physical pill with a specific dimensions and location did nothing, the cognitive thinker (in this case, the deceived believer) influenced certain physical processes which no physically locatabe thing could have done.
     
    3.) Agreed (the mind-or-soul is connected to this dimension, but it simply doesn't manifest itself within the rigid constructs of three dimensional time and space, i.e., it's not something "physical"). But, what do u mean by "physical location"?... do u mean that all things which are real posses extended three dimensional figure, and are thus within the realm of three-dimensional time and space, i.e., it's located in the "physical" universe? (What's "physical" being defined by its manifest dimensions, i..e., the tangible dimensions of height, length, and depth.)
     
    4.) Yes, but my question is... where and what is the thing that asks, in an intentional and concentrated manner, "why did I do that?"
     
  17. #17 Boats And Hoes, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
     
    I know the outside world can influence dreams, no argument here, but I was asking if the external world is what is presenting all the data of one's dream? (Presenting data like the data that's presented to me when I'm awake and my physical eyes are open)
     
    And, also, what is it that's experiencing the data of a dream? It surely isn't the physical body itself, or something external to it... is it?
     
  18. Personality and memory ....if you are actually interested and not just looking for an argument.....
    The physical source of personality and memory is within the temporal lobes....as well as two little bits buried within them.... the hypocampis(sp?) As well as the ablumagata(seriously sp?)

    A slight change in the flow of electricity...speed or pattern... can and will completely alter who you are.... how you react and interact.... as well as what world you see hear feel taste and touch....

    Just a tiny spike wave pattern.....and the sky changes colors... the air tastes different.... the whole world you know falls away to reveal a whole new world waiting.... reaching out to me....
    Music which one can feel as much as hear fills the air..... air so thick it holds you tight...
    There are whole other places we are connected to.....
    which part of my brain makes the connection.... i told you.... temporal lobe....
     
  19. All Thoughts Belong To The Observer Who Observes Everything That Has Previously Happened, So Can We Break Free From The Memorys And Knowledge That Confines Us?
     
  20. #20 Boats And Hoes, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
     
    Ah, yes, deterministic biology...
     
    Yet, an immaterial cognizant thinker-reflector can deny all past constructs given and consequentially undermine all influence of mechanistic personality and memory... ever heard of neuroplasciticty?? The "I" allows us to condition ourselves, our ways and behaviors, through cognizant concentration. ;)
     
    Ur only a machine, and a mass produced product of ur physical environment, without any autonomy, if u believe this to be so... yet, what is "it" exactly that is freely believing and observing the idea ur not free? The "I"...
     

Share This Page