[quote name='"oldSCHOOL_toker"']If psychosis is enlightenment then I think most would rather be ignorant.[/quote] Exactly. If you think about it, those with psychosis look like they are suffering on the outside. But what if they are just fighting to transcend their physical body?
psychosis has less to do with the body and more to do with the mind. I don't know, honestly. I see it as an illness like any other illness. except it afflicts ones thoughts instead of their cells, or lungs, muscles, what have you.
I don't view psychosis as pure enlightenment but rather a window into a spiritual plane of reality. You can see how something so uplifting can become problematic if no one else can see what you think you see. Also if your visions are Hell-oriented they are not fun at all but they serve a purpose to divert you from a dangerous path. Of course many, many people have delusions with no religious context but maybe these are spiritual visions aren't properly recognized as such and dismissed as psychological madness.
Why should we give Buddhists and Hindu's any credibility? here's a definition for enlighten en·light·en [en-lahyt-n] Show IPA verb (used with object) 1. to give intellectual or spiritual light to; instruct; impart knowledge to: We hope the results of our research will enlighten our colleagues. On my understanding, to be enlightened is to to gain knowledge. Now I define knowledge as justified true belief. I think what we are talking about for enlightenment is about a new reality. Unless you subscribe what is true to be relative ,which makes knowledge relative , then it is possible for everyone to have a different experience in enlightenment. However, there are a lot of weaknesses in a relativist's position because things can be right and wrong at the same time. I don't subscribe myself to a relativist position , but pragmatism , in short ,the truth works. If we were to say enlightenment is relative , and this new reality seems to be different for everyone , there are problems. Because then what is reality? is water made out of fire for one person then made out of skittles for the next? This doesn't work and if anything points towards one or both are far from reality , therefore , not enlightened. If reality isn't relative , then it's absolute ,which will point towards a shared reality that works. 2 guys will agree on something like the earth is round , the facts are coherent and corresponds to each other , making it a possibility that , they are enlightened.
[quote name='"jayfoxpox"'] Why should we give Buddhists and Hindu's any credibility? here's a definition for enlighten en·light·en [en-lahyt-n] Show IPA verb (used with object) 1. to give intellectual or spiritual light to; instruct; impart knowledge to: We hope the results of our research will enlighten our colleagues. On my understanding, to be enlightened is to to gain knowledge. Now I define knowledge as justified true belief. I think what we are talking about for enlightenment is about a new reality. Unless you subscribe what is true to be relative ,which makes knowledge relative , then it is possible for everyone to have a different experience in enlightenment. However, there are a lot of weaknesses in a relativist's position because things can be right and wrong at the same time. I don't subscribe myself to a relativist position , but pragmatism , in short ,the truth works. If we were to say enlightenment is relative , and this new reality seems to be different for everyone , there are problems. Because then what is reality? is water made out of fire for one person then made out of skittles for the next? This doesn't work and if anything points towards one or both are far from reality , therefore , not enlightened. If reality isn't relative , then it's absolute ,which will point towards a shared reality that works. 2 guys will agree on something like the earth is round , the facts are coherent and corresponds to each other , making it a possibility that , they are enlightened.[/quote] I was referring to the Buddhist enlightenment, the Hindu "liberation", or the Christian "Kingdom of God". They are all the same thing. To me, reality is an individual's experience and perception of life. Whether or not reality is the same for everyone, how would we know? Someone else's reality (experiences, perception) lives within your own reality, and doesn't exist outside of it. If it does, you would have no way to prove it. If you view enlightenment as a parellel version of reality, then you can see where my theory that its different for everyone comes to play. If you think about it though, enlightenment BECOMES reality, so the previous reality no longer exists. Although, thats all it is - a theory.
I don't have dreams about heaven and hell, per se, because they've never been part of my worldview, but I do have dreams about the space inbetween this life and whatever incarnation comes next. Sometimes they're not particularly pleasant.
I think heaven and hell are in tune it our everyday reality. God won't hold up a sign to say â€you now entered heaven†or â€you now entered hell†but if you look at the positive and negative signs you can tell.
They certainly push me to further progress along my spiritual path, yes. As for the better person part, I'm not a particularly good person, I don't think. It's something I'm working on, but it's also something I seem to be failing miserably at in my eyes.
To me, reality is an individual's experience and perception of life. Whether or not reality is the same for everyone, how would we know? We don't know for certain ,however, we have to assume our perception is somewhat accurate otherwise we have nothing to work with. Someone else's reality (experiences, perception) lives within your own reality, and doesn't exist outside of it. If it does, you would have no way to prove it. How can someone's reality live in my reality? What does that even mean? If you think about it though, enlightenment BECOMES reality, so the previous reality no longer exists. Although, thats all it is - a theory. To be enlightened is to gain new knowledge , which means the individual is a step closer to reality. The so called "reality" before it is an illusion and was never a reality to begin with and so is the present "reality" most likely.
[quote name='"jayfoxpox"']To me, reality is an individual's experience and perception of life. Whether or not reality is the same for everyone, how would we know? We don't know for certain ,however, we have to assume our perception is somewhat accurate otherwise we have nothing to work with. Someone else's reality (experiences, perception) lives within your own reality, and doesn't exist outside of it. If it does, you would have no way to prove it. How can someone's reality live in my reality? What does that even mean? If you think about it though, enlightenment BECOMES reality, so the previous reality no longer exists. Although, thats all it is - a theory. To be enlightened is to gain new knowledge , which means the individual is a step closer to reality. The so called "reality" before it is an illusion and was never a reality to begin with and so is the present "reality" most likely.[/quote] By "someone else's reality lives within ours", I meant their reality is not seperate from ours. Sure, they may be experiencing something different and have different view points but that only exists within our reality. So, at the time of our death, the reality of the other person ceases to exits - obviously. This is what I meant. Referring to your last paragraph - if enlightenment is a step to a true reality, whats the step after it? The unenlightened mind may be an illusion, but it certainly still is a reality. Its like looking out of a window inside a room; you are still present, no? But what if you open the window and step outside? Your presence changes. Your reality changes. You were present while both inside the room and outside. Both exist, but one is more bare then the other. One is the more true reality, between the two. You do not simply cease to exist while inside the room. Another example is if you close your eyes. If you do this for an extended amount of time you begin to see shapes and geometric patterns. This darkness become reality, although it is at the same time an illusion. Open your eyes and a new reality unfolds.
By "someone else's reality lives within ours", I meant their reality is not seperate from ours. Sure, they may be experiencing something different and have different view points but that only exists within our reality. So, at the time of our death, the reality of the other person ceases to exits - obviously. This is what I meant. I think you're confusing reality with consciousness and awareness. Referring to your last paragraph - if enlightenment is a step to a true reality, whats the step after it? i said its closer to reality , so the step after would be the same thing, closer to reality. The unenlightened mind may be an illusion, but it certainly still is a reality. No, it's not its just an illusion. Reality is what is actually "is". What you're doing is changing the definition of reality. reality is external from us , all we can perceive is the effects it leaves on us. Another example is if you close your eyes. If you do this for an extended amount of time you begin to see shapes and geometric patterns. This darkness become reality, although it is at the same time an illusion. Open your eyes and a new reality unfolds. The only thing that changes is the stimuli my brain perceives. This phenomena can be easily explained by science , which a body of knowledge that is agreed within the scientific community , therefore reality didn't change at all , but a phenomena from reality is adding another layer of illusion, making observer's perception more inaccurate from reality.
I experienced a manic episode a couple years back. At the time i was practicing meditation and reading into hermeticism. It seemed like an ego death to me, doctors think it might be bipolar/ manic depression. The events leading up to the episode were not enjoyable, very frightening, the episode itself was pretty hard to describe, but it was "bliss". After the episode was a nightmare, as I was in the psych unit for a week, being forced to take medicine (anti-psychotics). I've been on mood stabilizers since, and have had no episodes since, and haven't really had an interest in continuing the search for enlightenment for fear of another episode.
[quote name='"jayfoxpox"']By "someone else's reality lives within ours", I meant their reality is not seperate from ours. Sure, they may be experiencing something different and have different view points but that only exists within our reality. So, at the time of our death, the reality of the other person ceases to exits - obviously. This is what I meant. I think you're confusing reality with consciousness and awareness. Referring to your last paragraph - if enlightenment is a step to a true reality, whats the step after it? i said its closer to reality , so the step after would be the same thing, closer to reality. The unenlightened mind may be an illusion, but it certainly still is a reality. No, it's not its just an illusion. Reality is what is actually "is". What you're doing is changing the definition of reality. reality is external from us , all we can perceive is the effects it leaves on us. Another example is if you close your eyes. If you do this for an extended amount of time you begin to see shapes and geometric patterns. This darkness become reality, although it is at the same time an illusion. Open your eyes and a new reality unfolds. The only thing that changes is the stimuli my brain perceives. This phenomena can be easily explained by science , which a body of knowledge that is agreed within the scientific community , therefore reality didn't change at all , but a phenomena from reality is adding another layer of illusion, making observer's perception more inaccurate from reality.[/quote] I think the only thing I can agree with you on is the definition of reality. Although, I feel reality is exclusively experienced by the individual - it is not one thing. As for the closed eyes example I gave, I didnt not mean it literally. I also did not expect you take it literally.. an unexpected twist
Psychosis wasn't an enlightening experience for me. One of the main reasons I smoke is to keep that bullshit at bay, because once it starts rearing its ugly heads it takes awhile to put it back to rest. Now, that said, I do think that I have some amazing insights that I've taken away from the depths of the chaos in my mind. That's the exciting thing about chaos, it gives all those elementary thought constructs a chance to join in new and unexpected ways. Not all those ways are enlightening, though. In fact, most of them are utterly horrifying. Sometimes the most twisted, chimeric thoughts, though, will have a small glimmer of something interesting in them, if we're calm enough to harvest it. Edit: something interesting I thought I'd share about myself: I like to view heavy smoking as a diving expedition to the nether regions of my mind. Sometimes I really relish in the joy of adventure when I smoke enough to put me in the diving zone, and I'll lay in bed and close my eyes and let my thoughts wash over me like a cool breeze. Terrible thoughts, joyous thoughts, I let them all roll together into a melodic montage that I can gaze into, detached and safe, until I fall into a sleep. I've often pulled my greatest thoughts out of such a place. Edit 2: I guess it clarifies things quite a bit to disclose that I suffer from rapid cycling bipolar disorder. Oh, and that I'm currently not on any prescription medications to control it.
What do you mean? you're talking metaphorically or something? In a philosophical discussion examples given to demonstrate your point should be expected to analyzed to point out flaws , which will also reveal a flaw in the reasoning behind it.
[quote name='"jayfoxpox"'] What do you mean? you're talking metaphorically or something? In a philosophical discussion examples given to demonstrate your point should be expected to analyzed to point out flaws , which will also reveal a flaw in the reasoning behind it.[/quote] I understand that, and I dont expect to everyone to agree with me. The idea was simply philosophical and not to be taken too seriously, the motivation behind it was to evoke insightful thoughts from my self and everyone that reads it.
Wtf I thought weed didn't cause mental health issues.. But anyway I think maybe exposure to "the truth" can cause psychosis. I've experienced it before on a horrible acid trip , not seeing the truth but the psychosis part. I did have a profoundly spiritual experience though, but I was definitely crazy for 7 hours...it was so weird when I finally realized I was on earth in reality. Stil don't completely comprehend what happened that night. My experience kinda matches ego death also, and I definitely feel different. I'd love to compare experiences if others would like too