Sex comes before the zygote. So how can you give "permission" to someone who doesn't even exist yet to do anything, let alone live in your body? How can you have any sort of implied contractual obligation to a non-existent human? How does that work? By this logic, any woman who is sexually active has no right to her own body, and has no right to make her own medical decisions. Do you lose these rights when YOU choose to have sex? Your life may begin at fertilization, but please explain how that gives you the right to use another person's body without their permission? (see above). Even as an adult human with unquestionable constitutional rights you don't have that right. Again the question isn't when does a a fetus become human. That's a red herring. The real question is when do I lose the right to my body, my blood and my organs?
Sex is the act that leads to the formation of a zygote. Just because it takes some time for the sperm to reach the zygote doesn't mean that you didn't allow sperm to enter your uterus knowing that they could reach an egg if you didn't take the proper measures to prevent it. Are you saying the zygote forced its way into existence? If a zygote still forms despite your best efforts (read: contraception) to stop it, that is why we have abortions. If you can find a way to stop the egg and sperm before they reach each other (and form a zygote), then it's not an abortion and the contract isn't made. This is simply wrong and is not what I'm saying at all. There are dozens of ways to prevent pregnancies. A sexually active women, especially within the United States should be aware of multiple methods. I'm sure you know all about those though, so I won't lecture you on the various methods. If a human uses your body for 35 weeks, do you think you should be able to just kill it on a whim because you decided you don't want to let it exit your body alive? What about for 30 weeks? At what point does the human gain rights? If you kill it inside your body, even if it can survive outside of you, that's perfectly ok? You ceded the rights to your body, blood and organs when you allowed the zygote to form and grow into a functioning human being. There are dozens of methods of destroying a zygote or even a small fetus that I'm perfectly fine with, but if you allow a fetus to grow into a human that can survive outside the womb, then you shouldn't be allowed to kill it on a whim. Obviously, this is a medical issue and abortions should be taken care of by doctors and because of this I'm not even so hardcore as to outlaw abortions (of any sort). I just think it's morally wrong to allow a child to form for 30+ weeks inside your body and then snuff out its life because you don't want it anymore.
If you don't want to create a life, perhaps there should be a bit more discretion on your part. Once the life is created, they have the same rights as you do. Some Declaration of Independence love: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The Constitution does protect Life, Liberty, and Property. It also doesn't grant authority to the Federal Government to make any law in regards to abortion and the Supreme Court doesn't legislate from the bench (haha, right?). “As an O.B. doctor I am legally responsible for the unborn, no matter what I do, so there's a legal life there. The unborn has inheritance rights, and if there's an injury or a killing, there is a legal entity. There is no doubt about it.†- Ron Paul, MD Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'. Again, you can do what you want to do. But I'm not going to condone it or pretend what you are doing isn't taking the life of a small, innocent, unborn human. What are you talking about: right to my body, my blood and my organs? I must have missed those in Civics Class...
So if a woman uses birth control and has "taken proper measures to prevent" pregnancy, then she is justified in having an abortion? Who gets to decide what is "proper measures"? You can't have a contract with someone that does not even exist. There is absolutely nothing in any law, or in any constitution that supports this theory. If my son- who is a 12 year old, living, breathing, unquestionable human being- needed a blood transfusion, there is absolutely no law in this country that could force me to give up my blood for him. Even if it means he might die. Does this pretend contract of yours end when I give birth? The law can't even force a dead person to give up their organs. But someone who fails to use contraceptives is shit out of luck? Contraceptives fail. Do you know what the biggest side effect is of the morning after pill? Pregnancy. Abortion isn't the "killing" of a fetus. That is your own language. An abortion is the removal of an unwanted fetus. If it can't survive on it's own, it dies of natural causes. If it can survive on it's own outside of the body, and it is removed, then it's neither an abortion nor is it killing. People die of natural causes every day. That doesn't give them the right to hijack other people's organs to keep them alive. Pregnancy isn't something one "allows" or "gives permission" for. It's a natural, biological process, that's going to happen whether one want's it to or not. Bingo! And what is your medical background? You realize that this doesn't really happen, right? The whole scenario of a woman walking into an abortion clinic at 35 weeks asking for an abortion because she "changed her mind" is nothing more then anti-abortion, religious propaganda. It makes for a great emotional argument, but it's nothing more then bullshit. Furthermore, unless your morals are going to pay for 18 years and my kid's college tuition, then I don't see what that has to do with me and my right to my body. It's funny how people who believe so strongly in personal liberties are so willing to allow mine to be taken away in the name of your own morals.
According to the New World Order crowd you are all a bunch of selfish parasites feeding off our mother planet like an unwanted litter of dependent fetuses who are all clinging to your own self preservation at the expense of our mother and the whole human race. Prepare to be aborted. Al Gore's Global Warming Cure [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIbuRMVVekg]Population Reduction is REAL! Watch and Learn People! - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObNYmlrRzbc]Alan Watt - Euthanasia & Population Reduction - YouTube[/ame]
Yes, everyone has the right to life. But, not at the expense of another human's body. That's why you can't force someone to give up an organ for you. Whether it's your mother, father, son, daughter, or anyone else. No matter how innocent, tiny, or cute you are, and no matter how old you are or how you ended up on this planet. My body + my blood and organs = my life. Call me selfish, but I don't have to share with anyone, if I don't want to. Aren't you and Kstigs the same people who argue that the only moral interaction is one that is voluntary? Yet, forcing someone to go through 9 months of pregnancy and child birth involuntarily is a-ok? Let's just be clear on what your argument really is... if a woman chooses to have sex she looses HER right to life, liberty and her pursuit of happiness because she wasn't "discrete" enough for you.
Oh wow, thanks for the bold part. I will save that one for later. To answer your questions: 1- Yes. 2- No. My argument is: abortion is fucked up and I will never condone it. However, I realize that no law will change opinions or actions, only society can do that.
Yes. People. Probably a combination of a legal system, doctors, mothers and other concerned parties. I already covered this and you even said that this is a red herring issue. No. Infants are dependent on you. You can't just leave a child out in the wilderness because you don't want it anymore. Boring talking point. Already covered this. The morning after pill is a last resort of thing (like abortion). It's for after you made a mistake. Why are we even discussing this? Would you like me to educate you on modern contraceptive methods or can you do the research for yourself? It's not alive. You can only kill things that are alive. What's the opposite of natural? Are abortions natural? What's yours? Would you like me to cite medical journals? Another red herring. I was stating the obvious and you turned it into an ad hominem. Forgive me if I don't trust your knowledge base though. You don't seem to have a good grip on reality. Anyways, if it really doesn't ever happen, that's good. Righttt, my morals obligate me to take care of your children. :lauighing: It's funny how your best arguments are ad hominems and straw mans. I'm done with you. Good day
dammit guys here's what I see happening a lot of people are saying "I dont agree with him on this" please face the facts. The president is NOW either going to be: Paul or Romney. That is it. BUT what the news caught themselves into is that Romney will be SO transparent that people wont care for what he has to say. Paul on the other hand INSPIRES. That is it. Paul is inspiring. Name me another candidate that you can say the same about.
Okay, this whole abortion debate in a Ron Paul thread is moot anyway. He's stated clearly that he is pro life. He's watched abortions take place and delivered over 4000 babies. Abortions aren't pretty, and it'd be easy to see why the man is pro life. However, IT DOESN'T MATTER, because I believe he's stated he would leave it up to the states to decide. He doesn't force his views on other people.
If we don't tell EVERYBODY we can while we can, we are doomed. Perry is going to fucking kill us all if becomes the president. But you know what, we'll see through their lies.
Hey I'll still vote for the guy if he's nominated! I think it would be an interesting experiment to watch all the civilized countries join together in the new world order and then America will just be in its own little world doing whatever the fuck we want. I just have one question that Ron Paul hasn't convinced me about yet: Is it safe?