I am currently running Nevs haze with certain AN PH perfect nutrients/Fox farm/Botinacre/Humbolt in a 50/50 coco perlite mix. I've got three girls (in 5gal smart pots) 26 days into flower and when I feed them I give them each 2.5gal or R/O water with. -Connisour A&B Ph Perfect 9ml/gal -Bud Ignighter (liquid) 3ml/gal -Botinacre Pure Blend Bloom Metabolic Conpost Mix 2ml/gal -Humbolt flavorFul Humic Acid -Open Sesame 1/16th tsp/gal -Superthrive drop/gal -Epsom salt 1/4th tsp/gal I usually have to add 10-15 drops of GH Ph up (Humic acid makes my Ph drop so low) I achieve approx every time... PH: 5.5-5.7 EC: 1.8 The PPM ratios I get from this mix are approx.. N-120 P-50 K-215 Ca-65 Mg -85 S- 10 Fe- 5 Which is not perfect, but close to the proper ratios needed for any given strain of cannabis. Regardless the Nev girls love to eat! Now i know people will give me shit for Phing my water to 5.5 but I've learned that coco has a stable neutral Ph between 5.5-6.5 (usually 6) and over time brings whatever solution is within to or as close as it can get to its natural stable range, this happens faster if your girls are drinking more. In theory this actually allows your plant to sweep the low end of the nutrient spectrum and gradually increase and stabilize near or around approx 5.8-6.0 allowing your plant acess to the lower Ph acessable nutrients. Now I only think this works if your water is only slightly off, because of course if you have a strong acidic or base solution you can actually buffer your growing medium to your desired Ph value (like Rockwool) but with coco it's unessacary. Anyway my point being is that AN has helped my garden, yes they spend a lot on advertising, but the PH perfect technology is worth it. As I do still have to Ph my water because I add Humic acid and other non Ph perfect nutes, when alone the connisour A&B and the SensiGrow A&B Ph perfect keep the water near or around a stable 5.6-6.0. It may need a single drop of up or down to get it in the right direction but once started it stays. I would not recommend you cease to Ph and check EC with a Ph pen regardless of Ph perfect technology or not But a great guideline is, learn your PPM ratios, figure out a solution and mix it with the proper ratios, then check your Ph and EC and you are well on your way to a great feeding program. Learn the plant, and listen because she will teach you I'll post a few shots when I get Home of my girls (typing this from my phone:/)
Here are a few pictures of the girls on day 26 of flower, only 1 is showing progressive bud development while the other two are taking their time but are not far behind. Two are under a plastic cage made for tomatoes to spread them out, while the largest one (which I had to super crop because she was growing up much faster than the others) has the perfect growing structure, hence why i took a few clones from her , hopefully the end product matches! anyway let me know how I'm doing
Well, I'm a fan of Sensi in the Expert Growing bundle. Sensi A&B Grow and Bloom Voodoo Juice Big Bud B-52 Overdrive Not sure about coco though since it's not something I use right now.
Would floraduo be ANs sensi bloom if so its bout same damn price too but might not have as many chelates in it as ANs nutes im trying the floraduo out for the hell of it and im using 10ml of a and b plants turned yellow with any less A anyways. I carefully picked floraduo cause it beats buyn sensi grow and bloom
That's good promo, However among all the benefots that you mention the product has, I think the only disadvantage Flora Duo has is, make people not read questions ? "What ADVANCED NUTRIENTS should I use?(want to drop lucas formula [FLORA DUO] added by ZS)" Just a thought ...
Look, if people want to buy from and continue to donate money to those rip off snake oil merchants that's up to them. Listen, forget the 12c you do or don't save on this particular formula, it's worth a hell of a lot more to not give the price of the feed to a company set up solely to rip the piss out of cannabis growers. Advanced nutrients came out with a product based exactly on a competitor's formula, told the customers it was better quality and would save them money -when that has never been their motivation- just to cover one corner of the market where they were being outdone. It's just another move in perfect timing and step with every other one they've ever pulled, including most importantly the thinking behind the formation and objective of the company itself. Advanced nutrient's marketing strategy is a simple one which, in this uneducated, bling-bling market, works time and time again: put a massive price on it and gullible people will think it's better. There's no more science to it than that. Obviously people are cool with that. Fair enough. But don't ever try and put it that people shouldn't say it for what they are - the biggest con merchants in the business. They're the doggies nuts of the nute world and that's where your money goes. The decision to choose any nutrient over advanced nutes is one of people who don't want to give money to a company set up solely to take advantage of us growers. And really, I'd expect, or at least hope that more people would think that was at least a little bit important. Thankfully a lot of people do and they'll say it how they see it. Which should make you question what your position is telling them to shut up.
Good Morning Today is a slow day at the LAB. I will spent some time with you guys here. @TheWatcher -I can understand you do not relate or like some Nutrients MFC like AN. Is part of the competition world. Nowadays we have so many options when it comes to nutrients for cannabis. I'm a AN user for the past 3 years + and I'm always open to try new things. However the best results so far I achieve it with AN consistently. I'm a business men. Every company, regardless if is chemical, organic or out of space will market their products. Some are good at it than others. That's the nature of the beast. I have purchased in the last 3 years nutrients from several MFC. All of it with Pros and Cons each one. I have to give a point not because they say it is good, will be good. Absolutely right. However when I company is still in business after so many years, give a certain degree of satisfaction and reliability. Otherwise, like happen to other MFC that come and go with the wind. This is just a thought Peace ZS
With regards to results, they're results you should see no matter what nutrients you use, provided you know why you're using them. And therein lies maybe the biggest problem. If it's the idea of a company to educate it's consumer, to be honest and truthful, then the profit they make cannot be begrudged. Money is god, it's everything to so many companies, it comes before quality, education, understanding, passion, it's the be all and end all. That's a superficial and empty objective which serves only one person, the one taking the cash. It in no way helps the community move forward and better understand the subject they're dealing with. People will believe they're getting something more for their money when they buy AN's products. The way in which we're programmed is to believe price is automatically indicative of quality. It's a fact of every industry in the globalised world. Release a pair of furry boots for the $5 they should cost, and some people might buy them. Release them for $300 and it becomes a worldwide fashion must have. We already pay a premium on nutrients. What AN are doing is just playing on people's ignorance. Going back to results, you've got to see that it's not one product vs another, it's not one element of one type, vs another thing. It's the same stuff, often almost exactly, but with an explicit mark up. It really is a mystery how they get away with it. AN's sales are a direct reflection of people's naivety. If they go down, it's because people have gotten wise; learned something, studied. Knowledge is empowerment and it stops people dipping into your pocket. With respect, I think you've got to see, by highlighting the marketing aspect and the fact AN are thriving, what your post could easily be edited to is: Sharks are plenty and there's fresh food born every minute.
I respect your opinion. I don't feel the way you feel towards a specif MFC. I won't argue that. I think you should set up a website, thread or similar to inform the world. On why AN is a failure and take our money out of our pockets. With a website like and the evidence on hand to back it up, I will toss AN right away and get cheapest nutrients out there. Since my naive mind will be free. Sounds Fair ? ZS
When I read this, I thought no problem. We all have the right to our opinion and what you do is up to you. Unfortunately, like so many people, you take what I said personally and it becomes a sarcastic and patronising post after that. I don't need a website. There are many thousands of growers who know enough to know AN products are snake oil. The rest don't. It's the way of the world. I'm just expressing my thoughts on it. Your mind is already free by the way, you just choose not to engage it. That's your prerogative. I'm not asking you to believe a word of what I say. I couldn't care less. It's not my money you're spending.
By no means I was being sarcastic. This is the real issue with Forums and the internet. Most of the time people think when somebody do not agree and suggest something (regardless seems funny or not) is being analyzed in a personal way. Sorry if my words made you understand that. I love AN as any other MFC. Money is a tool to get what I want (Power of Acquisition) . I do not care about my money with AN more than any other MFC, because I receive something in return, works, performs and I will be happy as duck every time I harvest. For future occasions, you could start a thread about this subject. This one was created for someone seeking knowledge in AN products. Most of our advises have been keep it simple as you can be. We even agree some products are $$$ in comparison with other out there. Was a nice exchanging of opinions. Have a Happy Life and Keep It Green ZS
If I misunderstood your post, I apologise. I'd just suggest to anyone before they go out and buy hundreds of £ or $ worth of nutrients, to get a basic feed and work that to perfection and not be sucked in by AN's advertising. If you buy AN nutrients, by all means do so, but keep to the most basic regime and try and steer clear of the many different bottles of snake oil they sell at exuberant prices. That's where they make their money. The most basic NPK nutes are the most important, no matter what company you buy them from. The vast majority of everything else is bullshit based on pseudo scientific claims. And it's not just Advanced nutrients who are guilty either. If you weren't being sarcastic, a website breaking down all the products many companies sell, how they're purported to work, and what difference in reality they are actually likely to make, is actually a very good idea. Take care dude.
Wow. A civil conversation. And spot on. Really, if you want to talk about AN, then you can. if you want to use them, then you can. If you don't want to use them, don't. Really, there shouldn't be any arguments on these boards, just the sharing of ideas. And yeah, we're not always going to agree. I just want to learn more about MMJ growing. I could care less about what people's personal issues are. LOL
I don't understand how this stance works in direct contradiction to the evidence. But first: So what you're saying is that it's not enough to provide an as-good or better product for less, it's only enough if their primary goal as a company was to do it for your benefit rather than their own? See, the way I look at it I don't really care whether a company produces something as good as their competition for less money because they want to make money (which of course EVERY company does or they go out of business in no time) or if they're doing it because they want me to be happy. The simple fact is that any company that relies on repeat business wants happy customers. Period. Happy customers are repeat customers. Unhappy customers are not. So you assert (with nothing to back it up, I might point out, just your opinion) that Advanced Nutrients' overriding goal is to charge the highest possible price for everything they make. So why does it cost less to use their nutrients as was JUST SHOWN earlier in this discussion? I don't know why Advanced Nutrients does what it does. How can you claim to? We're simply attributing motive based on what we observe and if two people observe the same actions and see two different motives it's abundantly clear there's more than one way to interpret those actions. If you look for a reason to justify a motive of overwhelming greed and evil, you'll find reasons to back that up no matter what actions you observe. It's the founding principle of every good conspiracy theory. As I touched on before, Advanced Nutrients is a business that relies on repeat customers. If their products were truly not worth the cost they would sooner or later run out of new customers to "cheat" and their old customers would all jump ship. The company would fail and they'd all have to find new jobs. However, we can clearly observe that Advanced Nutrients is growing and thriving which indicates that they are retaining customers as well as gaining new ones. That positive growth proves a customer retention percentage significant enough to really rule out the "rip-off" theory. So regardless of whether or not AN is out to make money (as they damn well ought to be) they're also out to make their customers happy, or at least happy enough to come back and buy more. Making a good product and keeping customers happy is PART OF THE PROCESS for them to make more money. This alleged greed (rather than what is more than likely just business sense) doesn't matter if the end result is a desire to make a quality product at a price that I, as a customer, feel justifies buying it again and again. It's enlightened self-interest. On both sides. I support a company that supports growers and supports legalization. I do it because that's a good thing to do, but also because they make nutrients that - in my opinion - are enough better than lower priced nutrients to warrant the additional cost. They produce a product that they can justify selling at a given price that is high enough to turn a profit for them and low enough not to drive away more than a certain portion of the customer base. Maybe they do it because they honestly believe people like me want a product like theirs (which is true) or maybe they do it because that's where they believe the most money can be had. Either way doesn't matter. Their self-interest serves my self-interest which serves their self-interest. We have a mutually beneficial relationship and we don't need other people who would not find it beneficial to condemn either or both sides for the exchange. There are places that charge hundreds of dollars for a hamburger. Ground beef on a bun with toppings. Do I think that's outrageous? Absolutely. It's not even in the same neighborhood as the alleged "overpricing" Advanced Nutrients does (again, since it's been shown earlier in this discussion that when you factor in application rate AN actually costs less than many competitor lines). But who am I to tell someone that wants to spend that kind of money on that burger that they're getting ripped off? Just because I don't value that burger at that price doesn't mean no one else is allowed to. The market will bear whatever price it will bear. If the product isn't worth the price, no one pays it.
You're basically trying to suggest it's AN's quality of product which keeps their revenue streaming in, rather than because people base their judgement of what's best on price, and that new customers are a dime a dozen. I'll be polite and call that naive. People have got the right to sell something which costs less than 50 US cents, for 50 US Dollars, and people are also free to buy it. But people are also free to cite what is factually true, which is that virtually the whole product range is overpriced bullshit. But why bother with all of that when you can selectively highlight the one product which is a couple of cents cheaper than the next and use that like it's some barometer for the ethical integrity of the company as a whole, eh? You can bang together any old argument to defend anything and everything. It's not hard, just ignorant. People will always piss money up the wall on shit they don't understand. But don't try and dress up water as wine. NP&K are pennies in the pound mate and if you think any A&B mix of crude elements is worth $150 or that less than 50c worth of soluble magnesium is worth $40, then more fool you and anyone else who buys it. They've even got the audacity to put the same shit in two different bottles, and I'll bet some idiots even bought it twice.... nowhere near even a dollar worth of magnesium.... sold for $100 No wonder that fucker is rich He knows the score just like I do. There's a fresh daily supply of noobs so why not take advantage of them? It's not my style really, I'd rather educate growers than rip the back out of them. But he's fighting the cause eh? Doing it in our interests? Wake the fuck up dude. Seriously. And with regards evidence and proof, every single product label is listed for your viewing pleasure. They're all there. Go and have a look. But try and do it with your eyes open, and tell me what you find.
If their business model was targeted only towards new customers and not repeat customers they would inevitably run out of customers eventually. The only way they could have stayed in business this long is if people out there are buying it grow after grow. Naivety could account for some of that, but nothing near what is actually necessary to keep them in business. I would say that most of the AN customer base is like me - people who've tried other brands and made the educated decision that they like Advanced Nutrients better. You can call me naive all you like, but the fact of the matter is you're looking down your nose at me for no other reason than I don't have the same opinion you have. You and I can disagree on which brand we think is the best, I have no problem with that. But when you start telling people they're naive or worse simply because they don't have the same opinion as you, that's not cool. That works both ways. You can "bang together any old argument" to attack anything and everything. Like saying Advanced Nutrients is motivated by greed when you don't actually have any evidence to prove that. Saying it's true because the products cost more doesn't make it true, because none of us have the slightest idea how much of that price tag is profit and how much goes to cover expenses. For all any of us know they're actually running tighter margins than GH or DM or whoever you want to point to. And that's the thing - you've decided to hate Advanced Nutrients based upon your personal interpretation of the data, not on any actual fact. And that's no different than what you're accusing me of except that I'm not actually arguing the opposite. I'm arguing that we don't know the facts of the matter and shouldn't be treating our opinions as fact. I'm just saying that I like the products. I don't have a problem with the prices because I believe what I'm seeing in my garden justifies the cost. That's a matter of personal opinion and no amount of your disagreement makes my opinion more right or wrong. And since I don't know what goes on inside AN's factories or offices or whatever, I don't jump to conclusions about what motivates them to do what they do. Now this is naive. Labels only tell you a tiny little fraction of the story. You can find four bottles with identical labels that have four very different formulas. There are so many things beneficial to plants that companies are not allowed to even print on the label it's almost worthless to even read them. It's kind of adorable though. Do you still believe the labels on your food tell you much of anything useful about it? If so then I'm certainly not the naive one here. Don't be a label-lawyer. It either grows great plants or it doesn't. That's not determined by reading labels, that's determined by growing.
Your whole post basically overlooks the one simple thing which you try and pass off into obscurity as "a matter of opinion"... which is that you can actually quantify whether your product is worth the money. It's not all about opinion and conjecture because these things can be answered with facts and figures. For you to justify the BS claim that your grow, and that of others, compared to those of fellow gardeners, is what keeps you and them returning to AN each and every time - that it is in fact a quality based judgement and not a placebo effect of a reassuringly expensive product - then your grow would be more efficient, better quality, better grade product than someone using a nutrient which costs 10% or less of what you are using. You can't. It's really that simple. If you could step back and just analyse that one single fact, then maybe you could structure your argument to say "well maybe AN aren't any better than any other product, and maybe for that reason I am paying over the odds, but I like them and I will continue using them" In which case I would have no argument with you. But when your argument runs along the lines of defending the pricing based on some pseudo intellectual fools wisdom about "what you really can't see on the product labels" then I have to call bullshit on that. Your grow isn't any better than mine. It isn't more efficient. The product at the end doesn't burn, taste, smell or look better. And yet you are probably paying literally 10 times what I pay for my plant food. Go and talk to professionals about this. Take your product to a garden center where people have spent their entire lifetime growing fruit, veg, flowers of all kinds. Speak to people who really know the earth and understand it. Maybe find some botanist online who can answer your queries. Show them the products you use, then tell them how much you pay. Their response, as professionals in the industry, should carry a lot more weight than mine. Like I say, if you want to use it, that's fine, we all spend our money on some stupid shit or other. But don't try and justify their pricing by reciting big M's bullshit about some special mystery ingredients which nobody can know, because it just makes you sound stupid. You say naivety alone can't account for so many sales.... I say naivety is a commodity which can keep a lot of businesses booming actually, and you only have to look around you to see that.
TheWatcher, do you grow any veggies? I agree, except AN isn't bull shit, a natural host to eisenia fetida - composting worms, which contain more beneficial enzymes and organisms in a pinkie nail of shit than any AN product does (and most likely ever will). that's my objective, peer reviewed, assessment.
what about this stuff? Dyna-gro grow Dyna-gro bloom Cal-mag could using these three be a complete system of AN's in a 40/40/20 coir/perl/wormshit mix? if not, what else do i need?