Hi guys, This is really stumping me. My plant has been hinting at something being amiss for the past few days (noticing some lighter green between veins) but after watering with plain water and aloe last night, this is what I came to see this morning. I have not added anything; last top dress with MBP was about a week ago. I have not sprayed with anything but neem oil for IPM. I do not see any pests. I was wondering if the light green between veins was due to too intense of light, so I actually raised the lights yesterday by 6-8". Any suggestions? I can't imagine she actually needs any nutrients as she's not even a month old, this is a new soil mix for this grow. I haven't measured pH as I was going under the assumption that for living soil pH doesn't matter as much. I'm seeing similar symptoms in the cover crops I've planted as well.
Could I be over-watering? I only give between 1/2-1 gallon every 3ish days and this is in a 20 gallon cloth pot.
The slight clawing could be a sign of overwatering. At this size its not going to need that much water that often. As for the yellow speks, those could be a sign of spider mites so I would check with a scope, especially on the under side of the leaves.
OK, so the weird blotching and nutrient deficiency signs continue. Even without regular/over-frequent watering. I have reduced the amount and frequency of my waterings. I am only watering with straight water, or water with diced up aloe leaf in it. I have top dressed with MBP once, and topped the plant once and done a little training since the post. I cannot find any indications of mites, or other pests. I have seen 1-2 fungus gnats, but nothing more than that. The images above I took this morning. I have not watered in around 3 days. The soil feels dry - not even a little wet - when I stick my finger into the soil. The pot does not feel heavy when I lift it. Here are some of my hypotheses: 1) My soil mix is off. See my journal for the basics of the mix. 2) Soil pH is off. My water is 7.0 pH. I am working under the assumption that since I'm doing a living/no-till soil, I don't need to correct pH. However, during my last grow I had similar symptoms and at the time thought it was a pH issue, lowered pH using vinegar, and this *seemed* to help. 3) Water issues. I have soft water. 4) I'm still over-watering; the bottom/center of the pot could still be over-wet; while the top and sides are dry. ?!!? 5) Lights are too intense/close. I have 4x qb 96elite V2's running at about 90 watts each. Lux measurements are right around 38,000 at the top of the plant. Could some of you wiser folks weigh in? I am starting to get frustrated and disheartened!
It looks hungry, I suppose the stress training could do that. I would make a kelp/alfalfa tea and let it be for a while with no training.
Raising the lights is a good idea, although this isn’t what I typically see if the light is too close. Still a good idea to raise them so this possibility is eliminated. Next up is your water and soil. Check your water report to this chart. Interpreting Irrigation Water Tests To see if it’s the soil, plant some seeds in something that works every time. Like Roots Organic soil or FF light warrior. At this point it’s likely they will outgrow the plants you are having issues with. Your soil is likely just a bit hot for a lil seedling. Start seedlings in red cups. Any problems will be easier to deal with and seedlings prefer being in a gentle mix for the first couple weeks. Never top, train or defoliate a plant that is stressed, this will only stress the plant more. Never use vinegar to adjust pH. Vinegar, epsom salt and dish soap is a very effective herbicide. The last thing I would do is feed that plant anything. I would start considering removing it from it’s current home or killing it and starting over. RD
Thanks for the advice, RD. I need to get the water tested for sure - just need the time and $ to go get some PEX adapters to bypass my softener and then get the water tested. I'm leaning toward the soil being the issue. I think I over-amended the soil when I first made it. I'm still really new (relatively speaking) to soil growing and had found a super-soil recipe on the internet, ran with it and added some stuff not knowing the first thing about any of it. I'm in the process of sourcing materials for a standard Coots/MOFO mix that I will keep simple and not fuck around with like I did with this current mix. So at present I don't have a "known good soil" I can test. I've got another plant going I started about 2 weeks ago. I'm going to leave it in its dixe cup until the root mass is well established; I didn't do that with this current plant. I've adjusted the soil mix I had left over - added a lot more compost and more aeration, and 1 cup MBP for 2.5 cu ft of soil. Hope that diluting it helps. Either way, in a month or so I'll have the new Coots mix up and ready to use.
Waktoo, would this be the case for a new soil mix though? I had been reading that for the first cycle it would likely not pose many problems; but that the problems crop up later on. I have a rain barrel that's full; I'll start watering with this to see if it makes a difference.
Yes. No. I don't know. It's impossible to offer an informed opinion without any data (water test). Didn't we discuss this recently? Doesn't your water come "pre-softened" from your municipal provider, due to high levels of dissolved Ca/Mg? And it's then run a second time through your own home water softening system? I would definitely be using that rain barrel water until you have a test done.
Yep, we sure did! It’s presoftened but uses a liming process rather than sodium/potassium. Not sure if that makes any difference though. Still, rain water it is from here on!! If it *is* the water, that would explain so many of the issues I have had from this and my last grow. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
How much have you defoliated the plant in post #1? Is the plant in post #4 "manifolded"? You claim to be fairly new to soil growing. Are the above techniques something that you've practiced regularly in the past?
FYI, you can check my journal for the full journey, including pics. In post #1, I had topped the plant 1x, and slipped while training resulting in the loss of 1 full branch. She was looking very healthy prior to that. Yes, in post #4 she is manifolded/mainlined from the remaining branch. No, I have not practiced these in the past. I have done a few minor SCROGS, with moderate success, but wanted to give the mainline approach a try as I like the look of the plants better.
Are you familiar with plant root exudates, and the roll they play with regard to nutrient cycling in living soil?
Yes to this! I wanted to go organic/no-till as I grow and forage for mushrooms as a hobby. I'm very into the idea of the soil web and the interconnectedness of life. I compost and do bokashi. I think about ways I can increase the biodiversity of the soil web on my property. Having said that, I am not as well read in growing in soil as I am in growing mushrooms, and know that's an area for me to improve upon.
I should clarify that my "yes" answer was more "yes, I understand the concept of root exudates and the role they play in nutrient cycles, but more in the abstract and less in the specifics." I don't want to give the impression I can tell you, on a molecular level, what's happening; or that I can even tell you the names of root exudates beyond I know some are carbohydrates and amino-acids, and that there are others too. I know that some of the micro-flora and -fauna exist in a symbiotic relationship with plants, feeding off the exudates and exchanging various things with the plant in return (e.g., nutrients).
Plant root exudates are produced in plant leaves, and then transported to the roots. When you top/defoliate, you reduce the plants ability to produce root exudates. See where I'm going here? Based upon what you're seeing in your cover crop, I still think you've got some chemical imbalance going on that's affecting nutrient availability. I just wanted to bring up the importance of plant root exudates, because I believe topping/heavy defoliation, and especially manifolding are severe stress inducers for plants growing in living soil. I remember hearing in a KIS podcast that these kinds of induced stresses, even when applied during veg' growth and even if they don't seem to create visual signs of stress, are cumulative, and will be realized after harvest and cure by way of reduced yields. Some reading...
Yep, I'm seeing the A-B connection there. That would explain the pronounced appearance of deficiencies after my 1st and 2nd toppings. So what do folks who are more experienced do with respect to topping/defoliating? Wait for the plant to be bigger overall? I used the manifolding tutorial that everyone references from growweedeasy and had figured I was "doing it right" but maybe not? Fantastic guidance, thank you, Waktoo! I sincerely appreciate the reading material, too.
I've done this to control the canopy. Works well, even if you don't utilize the initial topping. Bending the plant and keeping the apical meristem bent down/horizontal does the same thing as toppping, with less stress/stress induced lag time. Use your own best judgement. Don't top unless your plant is growing like wild fire and has plenty of fan leaves on it to sustain production of those root exudates... Cannabis Low Stress Training (LST) Tutorial | Grow Weed Easy