Over the last several months I’ve been volunteering for the“Yes on I-502” campaign all over the state promoting what I believe is commonsense marijuana law reform. As I began my volunteer work, I quickly discovered that the fiercest and most strident opposition to I-502 comes from within the cannabis community, particularly from the medical marijuana industry and the patients whom they serve. This has been a frustrating experience to say the least, especially since the reasons they often give for opposing are usually based on a misunderstanding of what I-502does, or an ignorance of what our current laws are. At Grasscity I’ve been vocal in the following thread: http://forum.grasscity.com/legalization-activism/947039-washington-voters-no-i-502-a.html. As you can see, at well over 400 posts, there is quite a bit there for any person to wade through. I thought it would behelpful to have as many of the concerns and the responses to them in one place. By now, ballots have arrived at peoples’ place of residence and I want to, if I can, help people make an informed choice. I apologize if the spacing is funny, I'm copying this over from Word and it's messing with the formatting. I’m writing this for three reasons: 1) Reassurance- I think there are a fair amount of people out there who want to support I-502, but have heard that “there are flaws”, or that “it’s a police/insurance conspiracy”, or that “it will make things worse”. I contend that all of these assertions are false. 2) Ammunition- I want supporters to know that there are reasonable answers to every criticism. I’ve had thousands of conversations with thousands of people on this and so I’ve pretty much heard it all. In my experience, the vast majority of opponents who have these sorts of concerns, who actually hear these responses either change their minds completely, or have their opposition shaken. 3) Repudiation- Many of the arguments you will hear from people have been dishonestly imparted to them in the first place. They need to know that the authorities they are trusting are not being honest with them. Once people realize they’ve been lied to, they are far more open to hearing the other side. Since I’m speaking to people who should know better, I’m going to assume that I don’t need to address the more mainstream concerns, like“What about the children?” or, “Isn’t marijuana a gateway drug?” This is not really meant to be read in one sitting, but rather serve as a resource for people with questions, or those in search of answers. Some of these concerns will hopefully sounds a little “out there”, but I want to be comprehensive, and these arethe sorts of things I’ve had to address over the course of my advocacy. I'm sure this post will be trolled heavily by the opposition. That's to be expected. Ask yourself who these people are and what might their motivations be? Some are misled, while others have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Keep that in mind. We have a chance here to make major progress for the marijuana law reform movement, not just for Washington, but for the whole country. If I-502 fails, it will be seen as a defeat of marijuana legalization, not as a minor quibble with this section or that section. Make the best use of the time you have left and get behind 502 while you still can. Q: What does I-502 do? I-502 fully legalizes the possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal recreational use for people 21 and over. The possession of up to an ounce of usable marijuana, a pound of marijuana infused solids, and 72 ounces of liquid infused products becomes fully legal at the state level 30 days after the passage of I-502. It sets up a controlled and regulated legal method of cultivation and sale. I-502 establishes licenses for growers, processors, and retailers to sell marijuanain regulated marijuana-related only stores. Taxes are imposed on each level of marijuanaproduction including point of sale. To address concerns over “stoned driving”I-502 puts into place a per se DUI limit, similar to what there is for alcohol. It also decriminalizes hemp at the state level. Q. How does I-502 affect the Washington State medical marijuana law? It doesn’t. I-502 amends the Uniform Controlled Substances Act which is codified in RCW 69.50. The Medical Use of Cannabis Act is codified in RCW 69.51a and is untouched by Initiative 502. Q. How does I-502 affect patients? Patients will have more protection after I-502 passes than they currently have. Under the Washington medical marijuana law, patients have only an “affirmative defense” in court if they are ever caught cultivating orpossessing marijuana. What this means is that they can still be arrested, and still have their medicine seized under current law. If 502 passes, they will have arrest protection on possession of the specified amounts along with everyone else. Q. But patients are allowed to possess more than those amounts! Does I-502 reduce the amount a patient is allowed to possess? No. Since the medical law is untouched by I-502, patients will maintain their affirmative defense for amounts over and above the amounts specified for personal use under I-502. Q. I heard that I-502 takes away a patient’s legal protection to home grow. Is this true? No. I-502 changes nothing about the medical marijuana law.Patients will maintain their affirmative defense for cultivation. Q. What about the taxes and regulations? Will those apply to my dispensary or co-op? No. The taxes and regulations in I-502 apply only to growers, processors, and retailers selling to adults over the age of 21 regardless of medical status. Collective gardens or designated providers operating under the medical marijuana law are unaffected by I-502. If you doubt this, read the definitions sections of I-502 and of the medical marijuana law. I-502 regulates and taxes “marijuana producers”, “marijuana processors”, and“marijuana retailers”. Under the medical marijuana law, a grower is defined as a “designated provider” or a “qualifying patient”. You will see no references to these terms in I-502. Q. Why isn’t cultivation legalized for everyone under I-502? There are a few reasons for this. First and most importantly, it would make the bill more difficult to pass. Polling has shown that the public is more skeptical of home grows than they are of simple possession. Legalizing possession is just one step, and we can take things further as we show thepublic that there is nothing scary about marijuana. Most people in Washington haven’t used marijuana, and they want it strictly controlled if we are to legalize it, at least for now. Homegrows would also undermine the narrower goal of the bill to legalize “personal” possession. The ability of an individual to produce unregulated large amounts of marijuana takes it out of the realm of“personal” use and makes the public leery. Black marketeers may move to Washington to take advantage of that situation. Q. Does I-502 make it illegal to drive high? No. Driving impaired by any drug is already illegal. I-502puts into place a 5ng/per milliliter of whole blood per se DUI standard for THC, similar to the way that a .08 blood alcohol limit functions in court. Q. Does that mean that I could get a DUI weeks aftersmoking? No. Most people are familiar with carboxy THC, which is whatemployers typically test for. I-502’s THC limit is specifically for active THC only. Unlike carboxy THC which can stay in your system for weeks, active THC is the psychoactive component of marijuana that actually causes a user to get high. Active THC quickly metabolizes into carboxy THC in a users system. Q. How much is 5ng? Why was this number chosen? 5ng was chosen as the benchmark because the most recent peerreviewed science indicates that users are at an increased risk of crash when they are at or above 5ng of active THC. A heavy user would have to wait 2-4 hours after the last hit they’ve taken to be under5ng. This is in line with how long people generally feel high after having smoked marijuana. Immediately when a hitis taken, active THC spikes in the blood at a very high number, somewherearound 180ng. As the THC metabolizes, that number drops very quickly. Q. What if I eat my marijuana instead of smoke it? Consuming marijuana infused products takes much longer for the active THC to metabolize. I’ve heard somewhere between 6-8 hours. However,what this really means is that people are high longer when they consume THC infused solids and thus, the expectation is that they wait longer before getting behind the wheel of a car. Q. Wait a second! I think I drive just fine when I’m high.Won’t this per se standard mean that a lot of people will be convicted of DUI’swhen they aren’t impaired? Although there are a lot of people out there saying thatthis will definitely happen, I completely disagree. In order for someone’s blood to be tested in the first place, they have to be arrested under suspicion of DUI. Probable cause for an arrest under suspicion of DUI requires that the person exhibit “objective signs of impairment” that the officer can describe. If you haven’t exhibited impairment during the stop, and you are arrested anyway, no matter how high you blow on a breathalyzer or test on the tox report, the case will be dismissed. I will also add that I personally find the notion that people “drive just fine” when high to be absurd, and that’s based on my ownpersonal experience with marijuana. It most certainly affects short-term memory and response time. Additionally, people who are high are more prone to be distracted, to zone out, or become anxious. In my view, people should be very wary about getting behind the wheel of a car under the influence of any drug. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that people wait before driving, especially since we're also legalizing it. Q. Does I-502 make it legal for a police officer to take my blood at the side of the road? How else are they going to determine if you are impaired or not!? No. I-502 does not allow police to take blood at the side ofthe road. In fact, I-502 changes absolutely nothing about the public’sinteraction with the police as far as the DUI is concerned. This seems to bethe biggest misunderstanding that people have. Allow me to explain how marijuana DUI’s are prosecuted under current law. First, the officer has to catch you violating a traffic law to pull you over in the first place. Make sure your lights are working, obey the speed limit, and don’t violate the law and you cannot be pulled over. If you are pulled over for no reason, any case brought against you can be dismissed. Next, the officer will need probable cause to arrest you under suspicion of DUI. This means you must exhibit “objective signs of impairment”. One way they try to gather evidence against you is to have you do a roadside sobriety test. In Washington State, you should ALWAYS refuse and there is no penalty for doing so. The officer is only trying to gather evidence against you. He will also try to give you a roadside breathalyzer which you should also refuse. He then has to decide whether he has enough evidence of impairment to arrest you and take you to the station. Typically if you were weaving in your lane, had slurred speech etc, this may be enough to warrant probable cause for an arrest, but during trial this can be challenged. At the station, he can give you a breathalyzer that you can’t refuse without losing your license. If you pass the breathalyzer and he is still convinced you are impaired, he can take you to the hospital for a blood draw. This is all how it happens currently and none of it changes under I-502. When the prosecutor gets the arrest report, he then has to decide whether to spend the money to have the blood tested. This is long after it is out of the officer’shands. The blood test will show all drugs, not just marijuana, and the prosecutor may use the blood test in court. What I-502 changes, is that if the test comes back at or above 5ng of active THC, the jury is instructed that the state considers you impaired at that level, and that should be enough to convict you. Q. So I-502 creates an automatic conviction? No. There is no such thing as an automatic conviction. The defense can still argue that there was no reason to arrest you in the first place, that there were no objective signs of impairment reaching the level of probable cause, or challenge the veracity of the test. The jury always has the final say, and they can even nullify laws they don’t like. There wouldn’t be an entire industry of alcohol DUI attorney’s if per se laws meant automatic convictions. The vast majority of their clients are over the legal limit. I-502's per se law mirrors the law for alcohol DUI. Q. I still don’t like it. Under current law, a prosecutor at least has to prove impairment in court. Under I-502 they only have to prove that you were above 5ng! It’s interesting that when I discuss this with people, they tend to have little to no faith in the justice system whatsoever, but suddenly at this stage in the argument they are extremely idealistic about what it means to “prove impairment” in court. Here’s how “proving impairment” goes down under current law. Under current law, the officer’s report, plus ANY amount of THC in the defendant’s system is enough to “prove impairment”. To my amusement, I’ve even heard this acknowledged by opponents of I-502 in an effort to make a different point. 90% of marijuana DUI cases end in convictions and my guess is that the rest are pled down. Currently, prosecutors and juries do not know, or do not care how much THC in the blood may actually cause impairment. Prosecutors are currently winning convictions based only on an arrest report and carboxy THC alone. The vast majority of marijuana DUI cases are for LESS than 5ng of active THC. There is a fair argument to be made that having a standard in place may actually reduce convictions because in the majority of cases, defense attorneys will now be able to argue that their clients are under the legal limit. Q. But isn’t a per se DUI limit unprecedented? No, it is not unprecedented. 13 other states have per se DUI laws, and they are all far more restrictive than the one in I-502. Most are zero tolerance, and most don’t make a distinction between active THC and carboxy THC. None have seen a huge increase in marijuana DUI arrests. Q. Why was a DUI limit included at all? Two reasons: First, concern over “stoned driving” is one of the main reasons that Prop 19 failed in California. Any legalization bill will have to take this into account if it is to stand a chance of passing. Second, it discourages people from driving high. While I don’t believe that the DUI provision will lead to more arrests and prosecutions, I do think it will make people think before getting behind the wheel of a car high. Many people are under the misapprehension that it is currently legal to drive high. Many patients think that the medical marijuana law gives them legal protection to do this. It doesn’t, and in my view, shouldn’t. Q. Doesn’t I-502 create a zero-tolerance adult DUI for anyone under the age of 21? No. Call it hairsplitting if you like, but it is not accurate to say that there is a per se zero tolerance DUI for anyone under 21. There IS a zero tolerance provision for people under 21 who have marijuana in their system and drive, but it is for a different, and far lesser crime. The crime is called “Driving after having consumed alcohol or marijuana”, and it is a misdemeanor. Keep in mind that though the law says “0.0”, tox labs do not report THC amounts under 1ng, so the practical limit comes to 1ng for people under 21. Q. Why have any zero tolerance limit for people under 21? It’s mainly done this way to mirror the way we handle alcohol, a system most people are familiar and comfortable with. If we need to make adjustments in the future we can. People under 21 are generally riskier and less responsible drivers. Maintaining a punishment will serve as a disincentive to start smoking early. Once again, there must be exhibition of impairment in the first place for an arrest to occur. Q. I’ve heard people say that I-502 lowers the threshold forwhat an officer needs to arrest you and what can be submitted on his report. Is this true? No. This argument comes mainly from people who don’t knowhow to read a bill and don’t understand current law. They read section 31 andassume that it’s all new. Bills have to restate the laws they are amending.Section 31 states that an officer needs “reasonable suspicion” that you areimpaired by something other than alcohol to take you in for a blood test. Thisis current law. It is also describing what occurs AFTER an arrest. An arresting officer ALWAYS needs probable cause to initiate an arrest in the first place. This is a constitutional protection and cannot be removed. Q. I heard that Progressive auto insurance is a huge contributor to the campaign. Isn’t this just a conspiracy to line their pockets with money from increased insurance costs from DUIs? No. Peter Lewis is an extremely old man and the owner of Progressive auto insurance. He is also a huge donor in the marijuana law reform movement because he cares about this issue. He gave money to the Prop 19 campaign in California and it had no DUI provision. He’s also donated to the Colorado Initiative which has no DUI provision. Peter Lewis has given a substantial amout of cash to the I-502 campaign because it actually has a chance ofpassing. Donors like that. Q. I heard that it’s not really legalization. I’ve never had so many silly semantic arguments in my life until I started volunteering in this campaign. For some people “legalization”means completely, untaxed, unregulated, smoke it wherever I want, grow as much as I want, and share it with my children if I want to marijuana policy. It means the absolute end of all penalties, all regulations, period. In my experience, “legalization” has always been distinctfrom “decriminalization” in the following way: When an activity is “legalized”, all penalties, criminal and civil, for it are removed. When an activity is “decriminalized”, criminal penalties are removed, and civil penalties sometimes remain. It can also mean that a state or municipality stops enforcing a law though the penalty remains on the books. Some people say “It’s not legal unless I can grow my own”. Is hard alcohol “legal”? It is illegal to create your own hard liquor. Some people say, “It isn’t legal unless I can haveas much as I want”. Is Sudafed “legal”? It is also subject to limitations on quantity, in fact, if you purchase it your name goes in a registry. No such registry is required for users under I-502. Some people say “It isn’t legal unless I can walk down the street smoking it”. Are cigarettes “legal”??... I think you get my drift. I-502 makes the possession of small amount of marijuana completely legal under state law. That doesn’t mean it’s the end of the need for reform. We can continue to make progress as we win the public over and show them that the sky doesn’t fall when you legalize it. We’ve come a long way and we need to keep pushing. Call it what you want. It’s far better than the status quo. Q. Won’t the feds just preempt the thing? I doubt it. I-502 does not create a “positive conflict”between state and federal laws. No state employee will be involved in actualcultivation or sale of marijuana. They will just be issuing licenses togrowers, processors, and sellers and collecting tax revenues. This is already happening under current law with medical marijuana dispensaries which pay salestaxes. The City of Seattle, along with other states and municipalities also issues licenses to medical marijuana dispensaries, which are in direct violation of federal law. The feds didn’t preempt when we took the first big step with medical marijuana, and I doubt they’ll do so in this case. Part of the reason it is crafted so modestly and carefully is to show the federal government that we are being responsible as we legalize. The feds are far more likely to take action if we were to pass a completely unregulated “free the weed!” bill. If we can show that we’ve got it under control, they are less likely to meddle. Q. Is the only “legal” marijuana, marijuana bought from astate regulated store? No. Possession of up to an ounce of usable marijuana,marijuana infused-solids, or 72 ounces of liquid will be completely legal if I-502 passes, regardless of the source. “Purchasing” marijuana has never technically been illegal, just possession,cultivation, and delivery. I-502 legalizes possession of the aforementioned amounts. Q. I heard that the tax rate on marijuana will be 85%! Won’t this make marijuana at the stores too expensive? The tax rate is NOT 85%. It’s 25% at each level of production: Grower to processor, processor to retailer, retailer to customer. In Washington we also have 6.5% sales tax. This does not come to anything closeto 85% with profit factored in. For example, with easy numbers just to make it clear to all: Grower sells to processor for 1 dollar: $1.00 x 25% tax($.25) = $1.25 Assume the processor doubles the price for profit and sells to retailer: $2.50 x 25% tax($.62) = $3.12 Retailer doubles price and sells to consumer: $6.25 x 25% tax($1.56)= $7.81 Total price:$7.81 Taxes: $2.43 Without taxes:$5.38 Tax rate formarijuana industry: 31% Add sales tax:7.81+ 6.5% state sales tax= $8.31 Total tax paid:$2.93 Pre-tax cost:$5.38 Overall retailtax rate= 54% Also, a growercan also be a processor, which is a way to avoid paying that portion of thetax. Q. What will the final price be? That cannot be known in advance. In a functioning free market with competitors, we should expect to see prices come down from whatthey currently are. The cost of marijuana is inflated because of prohibition.I-502 specifically states that the intent of the tax rate it tied to two goals:1) Discouraging youth use (keeping it high), and (2) undercutting the blackmarket (keeping it low). If I-502 is failing to undercut the black market, theliquor control board is to make recommendations to the legislature that the taxrate should fall. Q. Does I-502 make it illegal to pass a joint? No. Passing a joint could technically be considered “delivery”under current law, but people are not arrested for passing joints. I-502 legalizes possession, but “delivery” is only legalized through the state regulated system, so passing a joint will still technically be considered “delivery”. The chances of anyone actually being busted for joint passing? Pretty close to zero. The chances of people being arrested for possession if I-502 doesn’t pass? A certainty. Q. Isn’t marijuana already legal? Why doesn’t everyone justget a green card? The current medical marijuana laws are extremely weak. All they do is grant an “affirmative defense” in court, meaning a patient or growercan still be arrested under state law. Nevertheless, some jurisdictions have decided not to stop dispensaries from going into place (like Seattle) and this has lulled quite a few people into a false sense of security. The way things are now will not necessarily continue forever. We need to legalize it for everyone. Until we are all safe, none of us is safe. Also, I am a healthy recreational user. I refuse to be a fraud and purchase a medical marijuana card. Doing so undermines the medical marijuana system for people who actually need it. I’ll keep pushing to make recreational marijuana legal so that we can stop wasting money arresting people for it, thanks. Q. Can’t we just wait for a better law to come along? The people who are opposing I-502 have some ideas of their own about how we should make further progress in the marijuana reform movement. They'll throw out all kinds of pseudo-legal jargon and claim they have a silver bullet that the feds can't touch. I'm extremely dubious that this is the case. Regardless, there is nothing inhibiting them from running their own initiative in the coming years, and yet they are spending all of their time and energy opposing the best chance we’ve ever had to actually legalize small amounts of marijuana. No legalization measure has ever made the ballot in Washington, and I am very doubtful that another one will any time soon. Many have tried, and all have failed, with Initiative 502 being the only exception. I-502 will make Washington the first place in the nation to have legal recreational marijuana. This could be a truly historic event and could be the first domino to fall nationwide. Q. Where can I learn more? Actual Initiative (bottom of page): http://www.newapproachwa.org/content/about-initiative FAQ Page: http://www.newapproachwa.org/content/faq NORML Write-up on per se DUI: http://stash.norml.org/thirteen-states-have-marijuana-per-se-duid-statutes Great speech by Dominic Holden at NORML Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_QLJqm5ydI
NO ON I-502! The whole premise behind this bill is for the state to make $ millions off thousands of increased DUI's every year! It allows law enforcement to collect a blood sample and if there is 5ng/ml of thc in your blood that's a DUI. Instantly. 5 nanograms is such a minute amount, you could not smoke for 2 days or longer and still have 5 nanograms/ml in your blood. I-502 makes people think they are safe to smoke marijuana, when in reality, if the do, they are at risk of a DUI for the following 2-3 days. I-502 removes the protection in our current law which requires an officer to prove in court that you were impaired in order to prosecute you for a DUID. With this new limit, as it's per se, you can no longer defend yourself in court against allegations of impairment, regardless of who your attorney is or how long it's been since your last consumption of cannabis. That's right, no due process. It does not end cannabis prohibition. The only cannabis that will be legalized will be grown by government licensed growers who will be getting $30/Oz and then taxed and sold in stores for $370/oz. This will lower the incentive of the state licensed growers to grow quality cannabis which will result in bad quality cannabis at $370/oz. This will encourage a large black market for better cannabis for cheaper prices, which under i-502 is still illegal and punishable by law. So let's recap: - I-502 puts people at risk of a DUID 2-3 days after using cannabis - I-502 eliminates your fifth amendment right to a due process - I-502 will produce highly taxed, low grade cannabis, encouraging a large black market for cheaper, much higher quality cannabis I-502 solves nothing. Don't get me wrong, I am all for legalization, but it does not have to be through I-502. VOTE NO ON I-502! In my opinion, Washingtonians need to be patient and wait for Sensible Washington to get their initiative passed. They have been very close to collecting the signatures the past two years and it is inevitable they will do so soon. Sensible Washington is for Ending Cannabis Prohibition. I-502 is nothing of the sort. If You're Planning To Vote 'Yes' On I-502, Reconsider - Toke of the Town - cannabis news, views, rumor and humor. Sensible Washington Announces 2013 Initiative to End Cannabis Prohibition
Paine's summation of i502 is 100% BULLSHIT. The MMJ community are the most "strident' opponents of 502 b/c we are the only ones who have fully read the piece of shit. The only people voting "yes" are the morons who got swayed by a slick advertising campaign to "legalize" and don't realize they are voting in a DUI trojan horse. If you are a cannabis user who supports I502 after fully reading it, you are a fool. Plain and simple.
I hear this a lot. I have read it, and every volunteer I know who works on the campaign has read it. I've read it many times, and I would encourage anyone who is thinking seriously about this to read it for themselves. The claim that the hysterical screamers who oppose 502 are the ones who have "fully" read it is truly laughable. "Reading it" does you no good if you don't understand it, and it is abundantly clear that most of the opposition does not. A few more resources for people interested: Radical Russ's debunking of Sensible Washington talking points: The Russ Belville Show #74 - Rebutting I-502 Nonsense from Sensible Washington - YouTube Steven DeAngelo and the Students for Sensible Drug Policy endorsement of I-502: SSDP And Steve DeAngelo Endorse Washington I-502 | The Weed Blog
"radical" russ is a burnout, unemployed loser and steve deangelo is a wannabe gangster, corporate hack. Why would anybody listen to them? 502 isn't legalization at all. 502 is DUI legislation DISGUISED as Marijuana legalization. A trojan horse that is going to sneak through thanks to a few evil genius lobbyists. For the first time in history since marijuana prohibition police and politicians are supporting marijuana "legalization." LEO has been harassing the medical community since the start. Now all of a sudden they are for it? If that isn't a huge red flag, then you are obviously a moron. The state is going to make 10 million dollars from dui fines and related penalties. Local governments are going to split 100 million dollars in marijuana profits and can do whatever they want with it! Read it! It's right there in black and white for everyone to read. Clearly, morons and those who will reap financial gain from 502 are the only ones supporting 502.
What about my post Paine? Why don't I get a debunk? Oh right,,,because there is nothing to debunk! NO ON I-502
@ Ze I already addressed everything you said in my original post, which you obviously didn't read. You aren't here to have a discussion. You are here to spread misinformation and sow the seeds of doubt. If anyone else finds anything he said remotely persuasive, feel free to ask and I'll refer you to the relevant portion of my post.
I dont see your debunk anywhere. FACTS: 1) I-502 puts people at risk of a DUID 2-3 days after using cannabis Your OP talks about weeks after smoking 2) I-502 eliminates your fifth amendment right to a due process if convicted of a DUID 3) I-502 will produce highly taxed, low grade cannabis, encouraging a large black market for cheaper, much higher quality cannabis What incentive will government licensed growers have who are going to be getting $30/oz and then seeing their product resold for $370/oz+? They will have no incentive, which will drive down quality resulting in highly taxed poor grade cannabis. This will encourage the exact same black market that already exists for cheaper, better cannabis. Debunk me.
This is getting to be comical almost... Ive read the full bill text (3 times) while it is fairly difficult to digest , I think the whole (NO) crowds DUI argument is plain fear mongering.. The DUI testing portion is already state law. The police get an extra funding of 125,000 for DUI testing... 125K ? figuring 40$ per test , thats only an extra 3125 tests being funded... With Washington population at around 6.5 Million , those are some laughable odds that the 502 funding is going to all of a sudden create a huge DUI industry... The other common argument is the Fed argument... The NO on 502 crowd will have you believe the feds are going to come in and cause problems , but this is already happening anyways, so again, nothing to do with 502.. I think arguing is not worth the time anyways...I would be shocked if this doesn't pass, Its the baby boomers and 40 somethings that are going to pass this in a land slide... On a side note, The supreme court is scheduled to hear the case of road side blood draws, If they find it to be an unreasonable search , then it will be a non point anyways.
The income figures are only BASED on Medical marijuana incomes, and is NOT set in stone , the amounts producers, processors and retailers make , would change. The DUI law is ALREADY law in Washington. How can you assume the quality would be worse? Anyone can apply to be a producer for the state , just like MMJ , some will be good, some will be bad, I think it would have more to do with the grower, than the law. Again, I think its pointless to argue this... I dont see why such a passionate divide.. If your medical , then it shouldnt even matter to you.
False. It is the provision to the DUI law that makes a difference. It is the 5 ng/ml limit that is ridiculous. What makes you think it is okay to get a DUI 2-3 days after using cannabis? This initiative gives people the idea that they are safe to consume cannabis when in reality it makes it illegal for them to drive 2-3 days after the fact. Also, once convicted, you lose your 5th amendment rights to a due process. Those two provisions alone make this bill anti cannabis. How can you justify these provisions? I'd love to hear. This effects medical patients just as much as everyone else. This initiative effectively makes it illegal for legitimate medical marijuana patients to drive over a day after medicating.
I've already addressed all of these points. But if it helps you for me to spell it out, here you go. 1) I-502 puts people at risk of a DUID 2-3 days after using cannabis -Read the studies. You can find them through the links. The vast majority of heavy users drop below 5ng in 2-4 hours. Also, one has to exhibit impairment to be arrested under suspicion of DUI before one is tested. This is exactly how our alcohol DUI law works and I-502 changes nothing about that process. 2) I-502 eliminates due process. -Completely absurd. I-502's DUI privision mirrors that for alcohol. Does that take away your 5th amendment right to due process? Do you think the ACLU would support a bill that did that? 3) I-502 will create highly taxed, low grade cannabis - The price of marijuana is artifically inflated because of prohibition. You are speculating about the future and calling it a fact. We don't know what marijuana will cost in the state run stores, or what quality it will be. Presumably, in a free market, stores will want to sell at the lowest price and the highest quality in order to keep customers coming to them. Even if the stores never open, I-502 still legalizes possession of the specified amounts, which is good. There is no evidence to support anything you are saying. You are just fearmongering and speculating in an effort to support the status quo.
You still have to be arrested under probable cause of DUI.. How do you figure than someone who is driving , than smoked a joint 2 days prior, is going to be "suspected" of a dui, Arrested, and forced to take a blood draw? Thats just plain crazy....
Howdy. I am a patient, I have read the initiative (several times), I am a grower, I am a chronic heavy smoker and I doubt any of you uses more cannabis than I do (OK, some of you may use as much as me, but not more ). I was opposed to I-502 at first, but now I get it. Maybe I can help explain why. The per se DUI was one of my biggest concerns. So I did the research and I discovered that even at my level of consumption, I likely do not wake up over the limit, like people say. I would love to be a guinea pig for research! I studied the research from people who are consuming as much or more than me (hard to do). What I discovered is that your body filters the ACTIVE THC out of your system pretty damned fast. Like 1-2 hours fast. So if you puff, you feel sober a few hours later, THAT is when it is safe to drive again and your ACTIVE THC is below 5 ng. The thing I found compelling is that I-502 changes the fact that they can currently convict you for less than 5 ng. Not only that, but they can currently convict you for your fatty deposits of THC, which I-502 corrects. If we vote for I-502 it makes it so they can't use the results of fatty THC deposits. Those are the ones that can be a result of something you consumed a month or more ago, unlike the active THC which dissipates rapidly. Ze Cross Jointa, Hey man, Does this help with your questions at all? 1 I-502 puts people at risk of a DUID 2-3 days after using cannabis 2 - I-502 eliminates your fifth amendment right to a due process 3 - I-502 will produce highly taxed, low grade cannabis, encouraging a large black market for cheaper, much higher quality cannabis Number 1- not true. I suppose there are some people who could have a false reading, but those are really slim and you can always contest everything in a court of law. I just don't get pulled over! I learned how to drive so as to avoid unwanted attention from the law waaaaaaay back when I was a grasshopper. Adults should be able to operate a vehicle safely without entanglement with cops. No lights out, no cracked window, drive good! Number 2- That is simply not true. NOTHING can "eliminate" your amendment rights, I think you are over reacting, and you clearly did not read the topic. Number 3- another over reaction. How does that even make sense?! The whole idea is to cut the black market out. How could that be done if the new system can't compete with prices and quality. Are you trying to tell me that a bunch of tax-dodgers and street dealers can provide a safer, more consistent product than a regulated, inspected system. That is absurd. And to suggest that a regluated system is somehow unable to meet price expectations of the public is silly. What are they doing now that is suddenly going to cost so much after we legalize it? I can tell you from personal experience all these perceived dragons are just mewing kitties in the dark. LEGALIZE IT!! God damned it!, we FINALLY have a real shot here!! Don't be California!
Sensible Washington is incompetent. The only thing they have gotten close to is being close to the halfway mark of the signatures needed. The police are unlikely to test you if your car does not smell like marijuana. The idea this is all about making money off duid is wrong. There are long time advocates of legalization on the yes campaign, like Rick Steves.